Dreamcast-Talk.com

MrSega wrote:(Does a more research.) I've done some investigating & have studied both Nvidia Denver and Wayne. The more I read about the xbit report & conclude it being very likely accurate the more I'm convinced they're talking about the Wayne/Tegra 4 & aren't referring to Denver. Wayne is ready OEM rollout & will be released in early 2012.

Don't underestimate Wayne, its pretty damn powerful and high end. Just that its more basic than Denver.

So Xbox "Loop" will likely be powered by "Bruce Wayne", The Dark Knight.

Its not going to be Tegra 4/Wayne as this is Nvidia's next generation mobile chip, that is used in smartphones and tablets. Its more likely that Microsoft would design their own custom ARM based chip, like Apple's A4/A5 chips used in the iPod and iPad. Microsoft has a licencing agreement with ARM Holdings to design and build their own custom ARM SoCs. What I think will be interesting is to see who their partners will be, if these rumors are true.

@stu. Wayne is configered with ARM Cortex A-15 cores,28mn watts & both has SoC non APU, OpenGL, 8 ARM cores at qoute "32-64" and can also use PhysX. Although Wayne is the highest end part of Nvidia's mobile line, it is powerful enough to be used for Notebook,Laptops & Tablets. And therefore can be considered for a low cost next gen mircoprocessor.

Nvidia did release thier roadmap & revealed not two but THREE silicon designs for Tegra 3 &4. I'll post it later

Tegra 3/Robin still uses APU and is designed for smartphones. It was revealed that Wayne has a lower end counterpart "Grey" which uses ARM Cortex A9.

If what you say is possible about Mircosoft contracting an original exclusive ARM CPU, we could be looking at the possiblity of an ISM(Instruction Set Machine) as opposed to an ISA since ISM is definetly SoC designed.

MrSega wrote:If what you say is possible about Mircosoft contracting an original exclusive ARM CPU, we could be looking at the possiblity of an ISM(Instruction Set Machine) as opposed to an ISA since ISM is definetly SoC designed.

It was signed last year.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news ... RM-license

Quote: "LONDON — Microsoft has signed an architectural license agreement with ARM Holdings plc, giving the software giant access to the ARM processor architecture and the freedom to design its own ARM chips. Details of the agreement were not provided."

And

Quote: "By taking an architectural license Microsoft (Redmond, Washington) gains the ability to create its own versions of chips that implement the ARM instruction set. In doing this Microsoft is following a path already followed by Qualcomm, Marvell and others. Apple is also thought to hold an architectural license from ARM (Cambridge, England) put to use in the creation of the A4 processor used inside the iPad tablet computer, but that licensing deal has not been announced publicly.

Microsoft's taking of an architectural license could be related to consumer applications, such as the X-box games console, and enterprise and server computing applications where Microsoft is known to have been looking at the use of ARM hardware inside its Bing data centers (see Microsoft job ad hints at ARM-based servers).

"Microsoft is an important member of the ARM ecosystem, and has been for many years," said Mike Muller, CTO of ARM, in a statement. "With this architecture license, Microsoft will be at the forefront of applying and working with ARM technology in concert with a broad range of businesses addressing multiple application areas," he added."

Here's the press release from ARM themselves.

http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/micro ... ecture.php


Edit:

ISAs and ISMs are essentially the same thing, they both describe the CPU's instruction set or machine code, which is required to make the CPU programmable. Machine code from one instruction set architecture (eg POWER) would not work if it was run on a different instruction set architecture (eg ARM) without some kind of interpreter converting the machine code to the 2nd architecture type.

Whether its described as a ISA or ISM is largely irrelevant, since we talking about the Instruction Set, which in this case would be ARM based, as I pointed out before if Microsoft does build their own custom System on a Chip (SoC) design based off the ARM instruction set, it would still use an ISA.

l33t

Next Gen Xbox rumor round-up

A couple of new rumors on the next gen Xbox today, this first rumor points to the possibility of a unveil of the hardware driving the new system at the CES show - January 2012, this one is coming from Computer & Video Games in the UK:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/32 ... ry-rumour/

Quote: "Microsoft is preparing to make the first official announcements for its next-gen Xbox console at the CES expo in January.

According to French site Xboxygen, the platform holder won't make any significant announcements related to software or features, but will speak of the hardware and its specs."

The article goes on to say this about the specs of the new system, it also looks like the 'Loop' codename refers to the internal team responsible for the software development for the new machine:

Quote "Citing an anonymous source close to Microsoft, it says MS has two groups working on the console; a group called 'Infinity' working on the hardware, and another called 'Loop' in charge of software development.

It goes on to state the machine will contain a hex-core (six-core) CPU at its heart, strapped to an AMD graphics card and 2GB of DDR3 RAM."

Next up is a rumor indicating that Microsoft is looking in to cloud based gaming for a future Xbox system, not sure whether this refers to 'Xbox720/Loop/Project Ten' or more related to the Xbox360, this rumor from GameSpot.com, via Gamasutra.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/streaming- ... Btitle%3B6

Quote: "While Microsoft is still a major player in the console gaming market, the Xbox 360 maker is envisioning a future beyond the current set-top box model. In a talk at the Game Developers Conference China yesterday, Microsoft cloud evangelist Brian Prince called game streaming services like OnLive and Gaikai "the distant future of gaming in the cloud," according to a Gamasutra report."

Brian Prince goes on to say this about how far along those plans are:

Quote: "Although Prince considers streaming game services the far-flung future, he's still working on bringing cloud-based features to Microsoft's console in the present.

"You will be seeing things in the Xbox platform that's cloud specific," he told the audience. "I'm already doing it; it's really exciting, but I can't tell you about it or else I'll get fired."

Interesting times indeed!

Looks like the latest rumors point to 2012 as the year that the next gen Playstation and Xbox systems are launched. This rumor coming from Xbit Labs/Edge Online:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia ... umour.html

Quote: "It is not a secret that Sony Computer Entertainment is developing the next-generation PlayStation 4 and there are hints that Microsoft Corp. is also working on the next-gen Xbox Loop. What is surprising is that the video game systems may hit the market as early as in 2012.
Ubisoft Montreal is working on a future title on target boxes that simulate next-gen Xbox consoles, which will succeed the Xbox 360, according to a report from Edge Online. The very first actual development kits are projected reach software designers by the end of 2011 and there signs that point to the “finalized console arriving at retail in late 2012”. Neither Microsoft nor Ubisoft commented on the “rumour and speculation”

Edge Online reports that at least one Sony studio is working on next gen Playstation/PS4 games.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/next-gener ... rrive-2012

Quote: " We can also reveal that one major Sony-owned studio has now ceased PlayStation 3 development, its entire focus having shifted to the console’s successor. The studio is also said to have been involved in the development process of the graphics technology adopted by Sony’s new hardware."

Also according to the Edge Online report it seems that Sony and Microsoft have learnt from their experiences from the current generation of consoles, looks like Sony is not planning on giving Microsoft the head start that they had last time.

Quote: "It is clear that both Sony and Microsoft have learned from their respective experiences this generation and recognise the importance of being first to market. Despite rushing Xbox 360's release - games shown at E3 2005 were running on overheating Power Mac G5s, just six months prior to the console's launch - Microsoft would no doubt view the billion-dollar loss caused by the RROD fiasco as more than justified by the console's eventual market share.

Sony, too, will have learned a painful lesson from coming to market a year after its competitor, with more expensive hardware. That the runaway leader of the previous generation is only now closing in on Microsoft's sales - 55.5 million PS3s had been sold by September 30, with Xbox 360 sales at 57.6 million - speaks volumes of the importance of not giving its competitor another head start.

I'm inclined to say that ANY Playstation 4 rumor is either conflicted,fanmade or totally false.

Several of these reports sound inconsistant. There has been more and more reports and rumors regaurding "Xbox Loop" than any of a the so called unconfirmed "Playstation 4" rumors. As for EDGE, most outside of Europe aren't fond of them and many pay little attention to thier magazine in North America.

Most of the rumors talking about a Playstation 4 have no rumored specs,no games,no rumored developers no substance. I can say that xbit using EDGE's source(if the source is credible so far there's nothing that indicates it is) is are more than likely referring to "P33.5" than anything else. Nothing has surfaced at all about a PS4 at all. Nada.



As for Xbox Loop. I seriously doubt its launching next year. Most credible and realible sources list it as launching in the early Spring of 2013 and that development kits were just sent out a month or so ago.

MrSega wrote:I'm inclined to say that ANY Playstation 4 rumor is either conflicted,fanmade or totally false.

Several of these reports sound inconsistant. There has been more and more reports and rumors regaurding "Xbox Loop" than any of a the so called unconfirmed "Playstation 4" rumors. As for EDGE, most outside of Europe aren't fond of them and many pay little attention to thier magazine in North America.

Most of the rumors talking about a Playstation 4 have no rumored specs,no games,no rumored developers no substance. I can say that xbit using EDGE's source(if the source is credible so far there's nothing that indicates it is) is are more than likely referring to "P33.5" than anything else. Nothing has surfaced at all about a PS4 at all. Nada.



As for Xbox Loop. I seriously doubt its launching next year. Most credible and realible sources list it as launching in the early Spring of 2013 and that development kits were just sent out a month or so ago.

Well as I've told you before, you're free to believe what you like, MrSega. I am just posting what I am reading in the MAINSTREAM gaming press.

If you choose to think a next gen Playstation is fake thats up to you, just like I think those new Sega consoles that you like to keep posting on are "fake" and "fan made" too. The difference is that I'm getting my info from gaming/tech sites and posting links to those sources.

FYI EDGE magazine is a well respected gaming industry magazine and has been for almost 20 years. They tend to be pro-Sony and Nintendo but their reporting has been accurate in the past.

stu wrote:Looks like the latest rumors point to 2012 as the year that the next gen Playstation and Xbox systems are launched. This rumor coming from Xbit Labs/Edge Online:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia ... umour.html

Quote: "It is not a secret that Sony Computer Entertainment is developing the next-generation PlayStation 4 and there are hints that Microsoft Corp. is also working on the next-gen Xbox Loop. What is surprising is that the video game systems may hit the market as early as in 2012.
Ubisoft Montreal is working on a future title on target boxes that simulate next-gen Xbox consoles, which will succeed the Xbox 360, according to a report from Edge Online. The very first actual development kits are projected reach software designers by the end of 2011 and there signs that point to the “finalized console arriving at retail in late 2012”. Neither Microsoft nor Ubisoft commented on the “rumour and speculation”

Edge Online reports that at least one Sony studio is working on next gen Playstation/PS4 games.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/next-gener ... rrive-2012

Quote: " We can also reveal that one major Sony-owned studio has now ceased PlayStation 3 development, its entire focus having shifted to the console’s successor. The studio is also said to have been involved in the development process of the graphics technology adopted by Sony’s new hardware."

Also according to the Edge Online report it seems that Sony and Microsoft have learnt from their experiences from the current generation of consoles, looks like Sony is not planning on giving Microsoft the head start that they had last time.

Quote: "It is clear that both Sony and Microsoft have learned from their respective experiences this generation and recognise the importance of being first to market. Despite rushing Xbox 360's release - games shown at E3 2005 were running on overheating Power Mac G5s, just six months prior to the console's launch - Microsoft would no doubt view the billion-dollar loss caused by the RROD fiasco as more than justified by the console's eventual market share.

Sony, too, will have learned a painful lesson from coming to market a year after its competitor, with more expensive hardware. That the runaway leader of the previous generation is only now closing in on Microsoft's sales - 55.5 million PS3s had been sold by September 30, with Xbox 360 sales at 57.6 million - speaks volumes of the importance of not giving its competitor another head start.

While worldwide numbers are close, take out Japan where gamers would rather eat their own arm than purchase an Xbox 360, and MS is pwning Sony in the American market at this point. Sony is ahead in Europe though.

This is surprising, though, since my impression was that PS3 had enough juice to last a few more years before a new console was released. Sony may have won the HD-format battle over HD DVD but they lost the war to MS in the US market. So much for Blu-Ray, since it never has become the replacement for standard DVDs. Ouch!

MrSega wrote:I'm inclined to say that ANY Playstation 4 rumor is either conflicted,fanmade or totally false.

Several of these reports sound inconsistant. There has been more and more reports and rumors regaurding "Xbox Loop" than any of a the so called unconfirmed "Playstation 4" rumors. As for EDGE, most outside of Europe aren't fond of them and many pay little attention to thier magazine in North America.

Most of the rumors talking about a Playstation 4 have no rumored specs,no games,no rumored developers no substance. I can say that xbit using EDGE's source(if the source is credible so far there's nothing that indicates it is) is are more than likely referring to "P33.5" than anything else. Nothing has surfaced at all about a PS4 at all. Nada.



As for Xbox Loop. I seriously doubt its launching next year. Most credible and realible sources list it as launching in the early Spring of 2013 and that development kits were just sent out a month or so ago.

Edge was Next Generation so I have never been fond of them. NG came out just as the Saturn and PSOne were about to arrive and they always bashed Sega Saturn. Sega fans used to call NG Sony Power magazine back in those days. They were at their most biased when they declared the jagged edged AA-challenged Ridge Racer V as the best technological achievement in gaming whether at home or at the arcades.

@CruSega. Yeah, that would explain alot especially explains why they gave Sonic Generations a 6.5 I remember Next Generation Magazine boy were they Anti SEGA! Called Saturn a mess and declared PSOne to be a techically superior console and claimed Jaguar was a more powerful machine than Saturn. Not only were they wrong and totally false but I remember them launching a nasty,propoganda laced smear campaign against Dreamcast. Always hated NG. However, I think this report is both conflicted(I think the source is reffering to PS3.5) & erroneous. Anything PS4 related has proven to be fanboy wishful thinking so far.