Dreamcast-Talk.com

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:48 pm**

Jenkins wrote:
djvectorman wrote:
Oh man... this thing (without the MEGACD and 32X ever released) would have been the KILLER system! A backwards compatible Saturn... with a nice 3D hardware architecture and advanced SDK available...

oh, sorry, please go on.

In my opinion, 32X was the problem not Mega CD.

MEGA CD was very unique. It just was a very weak underpowered system. It was kinda like Wii. The nice thing about it, its that it used its own processor and stored a healthy dose of RAM at 500KBs. It was the novelty approach that SOA took with SEGA CD that hurt its reputation. Had Kalinske been awake, he would have kept supporting SEGA CD and had ACTUAL games developed for it.

32X was a mess. A failure. a BAD idea that really sealed the fate of Saturn. 32X is what ruined SEGA. Not Playstation, not Bernie Stolar. But this GODAWFUL thing. This piece of crap should have been scrapped very quickly. Nakayama should have had the balls I think Satomi has.(which is why Mike Hayes got fired.) He should have put his foot down and told SOA "Hell No!".

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:58 pm**

djvectorman wrote:However Mr Sega, can you tell me if it's true the sound card in Genesis model 2 is even worse than model 1 ? (LOL if so yuck) If so, I will not attempt this :

http://longhornengineer.com/diy/neptunehowto/

The early 1988-1993 Model 1 build of Genesis/Mega Drive was designed more as a "Home Arcade system" with the headphone jack and built in Stereo sound. The later Model 2 build 1993-1997 was designed for a more markeable "coolness" appeal.

The Genesis/Mega Drive hardware uses a single core 8-bit Z80 sound chip the Yamaha YM2151, its basically the 8-bit CPU of Mark III/Master System. The chip is very limited because it runs at only 4 MHZ using PCM sound.

Now the 32X sound chip is WORSE than Genesis simply because 32X was built without its own processor and without its own soundchip. It used the Genesis soundchip, but the motherboard of the 32X was designed using a different controller bus then System 32 that wasn't compatitable with Genesis.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:03 pm**

We may never know about the Jupiter 100%

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:05 pm**

MrSega wrote: Model 2 is a PC arcade board. Saturn's CPUs is a modified version of it and its VDPs are a off-the-shelf built of its 3D Fujistu TGP Graphic Proccessor. They basically are a lower Resolution and divided variant built of the same Lockheed Martin 3D technology.

No they aren't, the Intel i960 and the SH2 are completely different architectures, the only similarity is that they both use a RISC (Reduced Intruction Set Computer) design of which there are many types, the I960 also is not used in PCs and is not X86 compatible.
Also the Fujitsu chip isn't really even a GPU, it is a high speed math co-processor/FPU (Floating Point Unit), mostly used for the 3D calculations. Lockheed Martin had no part in the design of the Saturn.

The difference is in configuration. This was the early 1990s. PC based console hardware was unheard of. Of course Model 2 would be different from Saturn, because Model 2 was designed for Arcade markets. SEGA's first arcade perfect build was SG-1000, but during the Mega Drive and Saturn years, SEGA's console builds were MODIFIED from their high end Arcade builds. NAOMI marked the return of Arcade perfect console hardware. Mega Drive is based of off System 16 hardware. But the System 16 board itself was build using very expensive high performance motherboards and used higher RAM than Mega Drive. MD uses the System 16B design which is modified and lower powered.

You can't prove that the Saturn is based off of Model 2. If you can provide a source.

No. Mars 32X is just System 32 based. The unit has System 32 motherboards. The Star Wars Arcade port for 32X had added controller VDPs for 32X embedded inside the cartridge itself. The actual 32X cartridges used a special converter and polygon rendering chip similar to that of Star Fox. Super NES couldn't render polygons, but the special customized rendering chip build in Star Fox, were programmed for the proccessor to read the chip. The cartridge carried enough RAM and instructional data for the CPU to read the ROM and its special expansion for the SNES. The same method was used for Virtua Fighter. Since 32X was designed without its own processor, there was no way to display its capabilities.

It has nothing to do with either System 32 or Model 1, it was a custom design jointly developed by SOA and SOJ, with SOJ's blessing. As for your claim about the Star Wars Arcade cartridges with additional hardware you appear to be getting confused with the SVP (Sega Virtua Processor) used in the MD/Genesis version of Virtua Racing, the 32X was supposed to replace the use of the SVP chip so it would be pointless to use something similar in the 32X cartridges.

Model 1 had a modified build planned for the Jupiter simply because SEGA was focused on 3DO,Jaguar,PCFX and had heard rumors about Nintendo planning a 32-bit console codenamed Reality/Atlantis. SEGA didn't believe a 3D system was needed, but since Star Fox could already do basic rendering, they were focused on basic 3D.

Where are you getting this from? The Wiki article is largely correct on Jupiter, basically a Saturn without the CD-Rom and some of the memory. If you have a magazine saying otherwise then scan it in and post it.

Sony Playstation went public in January of 1994. SEGA had already finished developing Saturn then and was looking what exact it was planning on doing with its 32-bit line. The Mars designed had already been scrapped by SOJ, Jupiter was what they saw as potential of being a well rounded competitor against 3DO and Jaguar, because the 32X American design had be revealed to Hayao Nakayama, there was contention on how SEGA would move forward for 1994 outside of Japan. Sega of America liked its idea and wanted funding for it, SEGA of Japan was more interested in its Jupiter concept. Ultimately, Jupiter never really got off the drawing board as SOJ reluctantly agreed to allow Sega of America to move forward with 32X. By May of 1994, Sega Saturn's prototype was already completed, PS-X itself was still in development, but SEGA wasn't about to start from scratch like Nintendo was.

32X's problem was that no R&D was conducted on it, whatsoever. The concept was made and immediately developed. That's it. SOA also gave developers no development kits for it at all. Many 3rd party companies simply developed 32X games using Genesis or SEGA CD dev kits. SEGA themselves rather handled most of the hybrid's capabilities. This is why 90% of its library was just Genesis ports. SOA hired no testers or debuggers for the actual beta builds for each. They even but strict deadlines on 32X because they wanted it out in time for the Holiday of 1994.

Source?

Comments are above.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:10 pm**

LOL Mr Sega, I both agree and disagree with 32 x.

1 superchip (svc ?) virtua racing genesis game at $80 x possible 5 (if they would have made a real 3d effort at vf2, others for genesis) = $400

32x = only $150 and it came with a few games at the point it was selling for less in my local shop.

I like many 32x games, thought it was a good idea in premise. I believe just the neptune should have been release and plug model 2 sega cd on side would have been fine.

Here make your own 32x games Mr Sega ha :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Genesis-32 ... 27ca1c65bc

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:35 pm**

MrSega wrote:In my opinion, 32X was the problem not Mega CD.

MEGA CD was very unique. It just was a very weak underpowered system. It was kinda like Wii. The nice thing about it, its that it used its own processor and stored a healthy dose of RAM at 500KBs. It was the novelty approach that SOA took with SEGA CD that hurt its reputation. Had Kalinske been awake, he would have kept supporting SEGA CD and had ACTUAL games developed for it.

32X was a mess. A failure. a BAD idea that really sealed the fate of Saturn. 32X is what ruined SEGA. Not Playstation, not Bernie Stolar. But this GODAWFUL thing. This piece of crap should have been scrapped very quickly. Nakayama should have had the balls I think Satomi has.(which is why Mike Hayes got fired.) He should have put his foot down and told SOA "Hell No!".

The MEGACD wasn't bad at all! I love my MEGA CD 2 and it's games! Don't get me wrong but without it the people would be more focused on the uberSaturn, which I described before. ^^

6 million addon were sold worldwide. That speaks for itself.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:47 pm**

djvectorman wrote:LOL Mr Sega, I both agree and disagree with 32 x.

1 superchip (svc ?) virtua racing genesis game at $80 x possible 5 (if they would have made a real 3d effort at vf2, others for genesis) = $400

32x = only $150 and it came with a few games at the point it was selling for less in my local shop.

I like many 32x games, thought it was a good idea in premise. I believe just the neptune should have been release and plug model 2 sega cd on side would have been fine.

Here make your own 32x games Mr Sega ha :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Genesis-32 ... 27ca1c65bc

Sega Neptune would have worked but SOA was too scared of alienating its strong Genesis consumer base with a completely different SKU that was considered a new hardware product.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:49 pm**

Jenkins wrote:
MrSega wrote:In my opinion, 32X was the problem not Mega CD.

MEGA CD was very unique. It just was a very weak underpowered system. It was kinda like Wii. The nice thing about it, its that it used its own processor and stored a healthy dose of RAM at 500KBs. It was the novelty approach that SOA took with SEGA CD that hurt its reputation. Had Kalinske been awake, he would have kept supporting SEGA CD and had ACTUAL games developed for it.

32X was a mess. A failure. a BAD idea that really sealed the fate of Saturn. 32X is what ruined SEGA. Not Playstation, not Bernie Stolar. But this GODAWFUL thing. This piece of crap should have been scrapped very quickly. Nakayama should have had the balls I think Satomi has.(which is why Mike Hayes got fired.) He should have put his foot down and told SOA "Hell No!".
The MEGACD wasn't bad at all! I love my MEGA CD 2 and it's games! Don't get me wrong but without it the people would be more focused on the uberSaturn, which I described before. ^^

6 million addon were sold worldwide. That speaks for itself.

Sonic CD,Shining Force,Snatcher,Final Fight CD,Lethal Enforcers just to name a few noteworthy classics on Sega/Mega CD.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:53 pm**

Yeah I love the classics on sega/mega cd.

Final fight cd best port of ff ever. 5 in 1 game cd great music. Sonic and Eternal Champions cd were great. I liked Snatcher, Silpheed, Night Trap or whatever and others.

I heard it was best selling add on ever, but I'm sure Kinex eclipsed it by now ?

Hey Sega license the 32x sega cd and genesis to someone to make a retro system with all of them in a small size case with 1 adapter so we don't keep having to ! Call it the Sega Solar System ! The hell there is a million genesis versions by you and others anyway, even that fake wii with genesis slot counted ha.

Posted: **Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:01 am**

"Here are all the sega codenames for consoles.

For all you interested in the code names of various sega consoles heres a list of them i took these off alt.games.video.sega-saturn. These were created by stvv, i take no credit for any of this.

Sega TeraDrive: actual name of Sega-IBM MegaDrive PC combination

Sega Jupiter: cut down version of Saturn without CD-ROM drive (canned)

Sega Neptune: Genesis 32x in one sleek console (canned)

Sega Saturn: Sega's main 32-bit system

Sega Titan: Titan ST-V, Saturn arcade variant

Sega Project Mars: 32x upgrade for Genesis

Sega Project Venus: Genesis Nomad

Sega Mercury: codename for 64-bit Sega (canned)

Sega Pluto: codename for another 64-bit Sega (canned)

Sega Eclipse: rumored name of Saturn upgrade. aka '64x' (canned)

Sega Black Belt: SoA designed 128-bit system powered by 3Dfx Voodoo
chipset

Sega Dural: SoJ designed 128-bit system powered by Videologic/NEC
PowerVR2

Sega Katana: Dural's official codename/name. aka Dreamcast

Sega Dragon: once a rumored or official name of Dural/Katana

Sega Micro-Drive: GameGear

Sega GigaDrive: direct ancestor of the Saturn/Jupitor/Mars/32x, based
on System 32 arcade

Sega Avatar: fake/phony name of console to counter the PS2

Sega Project Pheonix: rumored name of Sega future 3D technology...
home/arcade? "

Poor Neptune, why weren't you released ?

"

Code: Select all

* SATURN & 3DO NEWS/INFO
Typed By: 2TUFF/CRYSTAL
Date: 01/MARCH/1994

Sega Saturn Specifications
--------------------------

Format: CD-ROM (300K/S) and Cartridge
CPU: Two Hitachi SH2 32bit RISC chips running at 27Mhz/50MIPS
Co-Processing: Hitachi SH1, 24bit DSP, Motorola 68000, Video processor
Memory: Work RAM - 16 Megabits
Video RAM - 12 Megabits
Sound RAM - 4 Megabits
CD Buffer RAM - 4 Megabits
Colours: 16,277,216
Video: Alpha Channel, MPEG
Scrolling: Five hardware planes: Enlargement, Reduction, Rotation,
Horizontal scrolling in two planes
3D Graphics: 900,000 polygons/sec, Gouraud shading, Texture mapping
Sprites: Four hardware sprite planes, plus two hardware sprite
rotation/scaling planes
Sound: 16bit 68EC000, PCM 32 channels, FM eight channels
Price: Yen 50,000
Released: November 1994 [Japan]

SEGA JUPITER SPECIFICATIONS
---------------------------

The specifications of Jupiter are virtually the same as Saturn, but
with around half the internal RAM

Format: Cartridge
Memory: 16 Megabits RAM - the internal memory allocation has
not yet been confirmed
Price: Yen 30,000
Released: November 1994 [Japan]

SATURN & JUPITER (SEGA'S BRAVE NEW WORLD)
-----------------------------------------

The fever pitch surrounding Sega's new 32bit system has just tapped
another dimension. Following detailed reports in Edge five and six,
we can now reveal that not one, but two consoles will be released by
Sega in November this year.

The Saturn project was expected to be a CD-ROM based system with the
possibility of a cartridge port. Not only have Sega decided to
include the port, but a second, cartridge only, machine codenamed
`Jupiter' will also appear.

Only in the last weeks have Sega released details about Saturn to the
Japanese press, but at the time of writing, project Jupiter has still
not been offically announced. Complete compatibility between the two
systems will be possible with the release of a low-cost add-on for
Jupiter which will provide the same double-speed CD ROM drive, MPEG
chips and extra RAM.

But why have Sega gone for this approach instead of the fully fledged
CD machine? A beefed-up spec could be one reason - Sega are reputed
to have increased the polygon rendering abilities of Saturn to try
and match the power of Sony's more powerful PS-X.

A cartridge based system allows them to bring out a more affordable
machine - yen 30,000 ( 185) as opposed to Saturn's price of yen
50,000 ( 310) - while still retaining the same power. Both systems
will rely on the same seven-processor architecture, including two
ultra-fast Hitachi SH2s plus 24bit digital signal processing.

Rumours of an American launch just before Christmas have already
started circulating in the US, although that will mostly likely depend
on the strength of the Genesis market and the quality and number of
32bit games ready for release. Also, Microsoft's involvement with
Saturn's operating system has delayed the arrival of non-Japanese
development kits for another two months.

Still, Sega reckon 40 titles are currently in development in Japan and
this month they will be announcing ten games to the Japanese press.

Currently, the only official announced titles are Virtua Fighters,
Virtual Soccer, a `2D shooting agme', and an `action game', but
conversions of Daytona and the Sonic coin-op are also under-way.

The first proper public viewing of Sega's 32bit hardware is likely to
be at the Tokyo Toy Show which takes place in June, but check out
next month's report from the AOU Show which in case Sega decide to
spring any surprises. Whatever happens, count on Edge for the most
detailed and accurate news on this hot new system...

OTHER SATURN RUMOURS
--------------------

A couple of choice ones: Game Arts are developing a new 3D shoot 'em up
for Saturn (a realtime Slipheed 2 perhaps?) as well as an RPG...

Egde has heard that it takes just two weeks to transfer code from Sega's
Model 1 coin-op board (Virtua Fighters, Virtual Racing) to work on Saturn

Finally think of Saturn's biggest moon and you have Sega's next generation
64bit arcade hardware - Titan.

The 64 bit Titan above looks like just the ST-V (SEGA Titan Video) arcade board.

# Project Venus: The Sega Nomad, a handheld, portable Sega Genesis.
# Project Mars: the 32X.
# Project Jupiter: a new machine combining the 32X and the Sega Genesis hardware into one unit. The hardware was to be totally rebuilt from the ground up. This failed and was never produced.
# Project Saturn: the Sega Saturn.
# Project Neptune: a second try at Project Jupiter. This was a combined 32X and Sega Genesis, however this time the two sets of hardware were simply integrated into a single case. Open it up and you'd find a 32X sitting inside a standard issue Sega Genesis. Only one was produced, and it's sitting in a vault at Sega of Japan.

Originally, the 32x was supposed to be a self-standing platform, a sequal to the Genesis instead of an add-on, as requested by Hayao Nakayama, CEO of Sega of Japan. This original concept project was called Project Jupiter. A few engineers from SoJ and a Sega of America decided to split and create Project Mars, which became the 32x; other engineers joined Project Saturn, which ended up producing the Sega Saturn. Communication between the two projects was very poor, and the 32x and Saturn ultimately became competing products.

Joe Miller (head of Project Mars, from SoA) decided that no one would actually want a simply upgraded Genesis, and ordered that the 32x be built as an add-on instead. By the time Miller realized he was wrong, and build a few prototypes of Project Neptune, a combo Genesis and 32x, the Saturn was already shipping. Project Mars and Project Neptune were complete and utter failures: Project Saturn crushed them."

Many stories but only 1 truth guys ha.

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