SONY being sued!

[comradesnarky]

MrSega, I covered all of that already. Please read my posts before responding.

Comarde, if Sony were to file bankruptcy they would leave the hardware business, it wouldn't matter how well thier other divisions are doing, electronics,film, e.t.c

Also, a division wouldn't file bankruptcy. A division is just a part of the whole company. Companies usually just close down a division if it reaches a certain point of non-profitability. If Sony sustained heavy enough damages, the whole company would file for the appropriate bankruptcy proceedings, which wouldn't be chapter 11 since they're not US based. Bankruptcies give companies chances to restructure, so even this wouldn't necessarily shut them down.

To explain further, it's completely dependent on how well their other divisions are doing. Sony is proud of the PlayStation, and as long as they can write off the losses, they're going to do it. Again, a division is a part of the company. If Sony's entertainment division loses $5 billion, but they make $10 billion from their film division, they still have a $5 billion profit.

These are all just different parts of the same company. If I ordered a pizza with half pepperoni and half mushrooms, they would still be delivered in the same box, and I would still be charged for the same pizza.

If Sony were to lose $24 billion on this PSN outtage, add that the $10 billion revenue total loss on PS3 and if NGP were too fail miserably another $2 billion waste, that would certainley would result in bankrupcy especially if Sony would have to have start liquidating PS3 units. Total losses for Sony itself would be close to $50 billion which is the total net worth of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

Forbes didn't come up with the $24 billion estimate. Forbes is reporting on an estimate from The Ponemon Institute (yeah, ha ha, close to Pokémon ). What the institute said was that there are 77 million PSN accounts. The article doesn't say that 77 million people spend an average of $318 a month on services. The $318 a month is the average damages sustained by a "data breach involving a malicious or criminal act." In other words, whenever someone has account information stolen, on average, that's roughly the amount.

Furthermore, not all of those 77 million accounts are genuine. I've used three different Live accounts over a period of time, and so have many of my friends. It won't be any different for PSN, especially since the accounts are free. There's probably an abundance of fake accounts. Then you can take it even further and say that not all of those accounts have credit data associated with them; PSN is a free service, and there are ways to buy points at retail stores.

Sony still hasn't confirmed if credit card accounts were stolen; I'd think if they were, fraudulent activities would've been reported en masse by now. They're definitely facing a class action suit that rules against them, but, how will they measure the damages? They certainly won't measure into large amounts of cash if only a small amount of people face actual damages if account data was stolen.

Also, Sony is worth roughly $100 billion, and they are very solvent. Solvency is a measure of how well you can cover your debts should you need to. There are also many ways for them to generate cash, from selling assets to selling more stock.

SCEI is the main division responsible for all Playstation. Hardware,software,R&D development e.t.c if Sony were to shut down this division they would leave the hardware business, pure and simple.

Companies usually just close down a division if it reaches a certain point of non-profitability.

[comradesnarky]

stu, there isn't a shred of evidence that PS4 is being developed. If there was one, the press would have gotten evidence by now and Sony wouldn't be saying that PS3 still has a long lifespan.

Actually, there is, and I've posted this article for you before.

Here's some bits from the article:

The next Xbox and the next PlayStation won't be released until 2014, if Microsoft and Sony have their way, industry sources tell Kotaku.

"Both MS and Sony are telegraphing to each other that they're delaying, to milk the current [generation] and fill in previous craters better," one insider who has worked with the first-party companies like Sony and Microsoft told us.

Other sources with access to first-party companies, speaking to Kotaku anonymously because they aren't authorized to be talking about Microsoft and Sony's plans, said that they too are hearing that 2014 is the target date, though some believe 2013 could happen if either company feels pushed.

"Sony definitely isn't launching a successor before 2014 and could stand to benefit by having Microsoft launch first as PS3 builds in to North America and builds a strong position in Europe. Microsoft claims there's a lot more room in Xbox 360 for developers to max out, but here PS3 could have a strong advantage."

"Both MS and Sony are telegraphing to each other that they're delaying."

Pigeon believes Sony, in particular, has every reason to keep this generation going, to capitalize on the slow-launching PS3 and to maximize the "headroom" still available to developers on the powerful system.

So, yes, they are trying to stretch out the lifespan. But Kotaku also has multiple sources confirming that they have discussed the PS4 and a launch window.

[MrSega]

Actually, there is, and I've posted this article for you before.

Here's some bits from the article:

The next Xbox and the next PlayStation won't be released until 2014, if Microsoft and Sony have their way, industry sources tell Kotaku.

"Both MS and Sony are telegraphing to each other that they're delaying, to milk the current [generation] and fill in previous craters better," one insider who has worked with the first-party companies like Sony and Microsoft told us.

Other sources with access to first-party companies, speaking to Kotaku anonymously because they aren't authorized to be talking about Microsoft and Sony's plans, said that they too are hearing that 2014 is the target date, though some believe 2013 could happen if either company feels pushed.

"Sony definitely isn't launching a successor before 2014 and could stand to benefit by having Microsoft launch first as PS3 builds in to North America and builds a strong position in Europe. Microsoft claims there's a lot more room in Xbox 360 for developers to max out, but here PS3 could have a strong advantage."

"Both MS and Sony are telegraphing to each other that they're delaying."

Pigeon believes Sony, in particular, has every reason to keep this generation going, to capitalize on the slow-launching PS3 and to maximize the "headroom" still available to developers on the powerful system.

So, yes, they are trying to stretch out the lifespan. But Kotaku also has multiple sources confirming that they have discussed the PS4 and a launch window.

While kotaku is a legit if not popluar gaming site, this doesn't confirm a thing or a shred of evidence of PS4. It's a mere rumor. Most sources stated that Sony posponed development of PS4.

You really seem to think that its that easy, that Sony can easily waste billions of dollars and get away with it. Mark my words when they don't annouce PS4 and when SCEI officially files for bankruptcy.

[stu]

stu, there isn't a shred of evidence that PS4 is being developed. If there was one, the press would have gotten evidence by now and Sony wouldn't be saying that PS3 still has a long lifespan.

I've gone over Playstation history. Sony usually files a new Playstation trademark several years in advance while the system is still in development. The original PSX trademark was filed in 1992, when the concept was still a SNES add on, PS2's mark was filed in 1997. Like I said PS3 was filed in 1999. If 2011 passes with no PS4 trademark,no mainstream rumors or reports, then there will be NO PS4.

And as comrade just pointed out there are rumors of a PS4 and a next Xbox, both of which are being forecasted to launch in 2014.

Comparing MS losing $4 billion on Xbox to Sony losing $10 billion on PS3 is like apples and oranges. Sony is already on the verge of completely bankrupting thier entire SCEI division by 2015..

Its perfectly relevant, in addition to the 4 billion Microsoft lost off the original Xbox, they also have lost money initially off the Xbox360, granted they are now making money, however the whole RRoD debacle cost Microsoft quite a lot of money. More to the point Sony is coming off the back of 2 very successful home console systems and 1 moderately successful handheld system. The PS3 itself can hardly be classed as an outright failure either. Microsoft by contrast have suffered losses, but without the profits that Sony made with the PS1/PS2 and PSP, but are still intent on building a new console, I believe Sony will as well.

Oh and don't put words in my mouth stu, thats annoying. One short sentence saying "SEGA will return to the hardware business" is not getting off topic no matter how you try to spin it.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I just quoted what you said. You mentioned it in 2 posts on this topic, why does it need to be mentioned at all?

To sum up. I just am stating my opinion that this is a serious problem for Sony, both as a security concern, but also in terms of damaging Sony's customer confidence. I don't however think it will be so damaging to them that they will be forced to pull out of the games console market. If you do feel that is what will happen then that is up to you, you've stated what you think, I've stated what I think. End of story.

[comradesnarky]

While kotaku is a legit if not popluar gaming site, this doesn't confirm a thing or a shred of evidence of PS4. It's a mere rumor. Most sources stated that Sony posponed development of PS4.

You really seem to think that its that easy, that Sony can easily waste billions of dollars and get away with it. Mark my words when they don't annouce PS4 and when SCEI officially files for bankruptcy.

While there is no evidence of a PS4 existing, I have provided you with evidence that Sony won't be damaged enough to file for bankruptcy.

I will say again, SCEI is not an individual entity. It is a part of Sony, and Sony would file bankruptcy as a whole. The only way that the PlayStation brand will cease to exist is if Sony either shuts down the division or if the entirety of Sony fails.

[mazonemayu]

I just love it how lately the 3 of you can't seem to talk about any brand of hardware without starting to agrue among yourselves

[MrSega]

I just love it how lately the 3 of you can't seem to talk about any brand of hardware without starting to agrue among yourselves

Thats basically because its obvious that stu and comarade jobs here are to dispute pretty much everything I post.

[RiilihShimo]

I just love it how lately the 3 of you can't seem to talk about any brand of hardware without starting to agrue among yourselves

Me too! xD

[RiilihShimo]

I found this today
http://gbatemp.net/t290619-psn-database ... sale?&st=0

According to this its very likely, that the cc could have been stolen, or its possibly a scam to sony.

The hackers may not have the cc information for all the users, that just might be their tale to get the money they want, since sony does not know if the cc numbers were actually taken.

If its a scam. those hackers are sick and should be ashamed of themselves.

[MrSega]

I found this today
http://gbatemp.net/t290619-psn-database ... sale?&st=0

According to this its very likely, that the cc could have been stolen, or its possibly a scam to sony.

The hackers may not have the cc information for all the users, that just might be their tale to get the money they want, since sony does not know if the cc numbers were actually taken.

If its a scam. those hackers are sick and should be ashamed of themselves.

If its true that the credit card information was stolen then Sony will be screwed pretty badly and PSN could be doomed. They could face litigation lawsuits that could cost them billions which could potenionally sink Playstation 3.

The hackers themselves are obviously very evil and very crafty, its very odd that they are attacking PSN and targeting PS3, they must obviously be disgruntled customers to commit such a clever shakedown assult against Sony.