Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

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megavolt85
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#11 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:09 pm

Ragfish wrote:Is it really that bad?


yes, SONY saved money on all DAC and ADC in the console, because of this the image is blurry and the console wastes CPU resources to correct the position of the analogs in the controller
I always laugh at people who claim that PS2 is much more powerful than Dreamcast when comparing CPU and GPU specifications

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Ian Micheal
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#12 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:12 pm

megavolt85 wrote:
Ragfish wrote:Is it really that bad?


yes, SONY saved money on all DAC and ADC in the console, because of this the image is blurry and the console wastes CPU resources to correct the position of the analogs in the controller
I always laugh at people who claim that PS2 is much more powerful than Dreamcast when comparing CPU and GPU specifications

Indeed i agree with you :)

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Roareye
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#13 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Ragfish wrote:
Roareye wrote:I actually do not like the PS2 either. The difference is I've not played one because the graphical output is awful. It's a blurry mess.

Is it really that bad? I have my ps2, dreamcast, gamecube, and xbox all connected to a crt via s video and they all look pretty much on par with each other. If there are differences, then I'm not able to notice them during actual gameplay.

Your problem is that you're playing all of them on S-Video, which is a sub-standard output. I'm aware it was the most common connection in America, but in PAL territories we wer elucky to have RGB SCART as the de-facto standard way of connecting equipment. It's no exaggeration to state that SCART was the HDMI of the 1990s, certainly in the UK. We left composite and s-video behind in the 80s. Even consoles that only had composite output (such as N64) used a SCART adapter to connect to most TVs here. RGB SCART could carry a composite signal, but it's most important function was the far superior RGB signal. Even under all being connected via s-video, the PS2 had a blurry look - but the truth is by playing the other consoles in a sub-par quality you basically forced them into looking as bad as the PS2.

- The Dreamcast allows for RGB SCART, if you wanted to continue using TV frequencies that would vastly improve your picture on both CRT and LCD. I run the Dreamcast through VGA because it is cleaner than RGB, but it is more of a monitor frequency than a TV one.
- The Gamecube also has RGB capability, so again if you wanted to use a bog standard TV signal you'd have such a better image using RGB SCART than S-video. Gamecube also allows digital output at 480p via component cables, which many TVs accept, but even if your TV is older RGB SCART would improve and clean up your image.
- The Xbox has RGB SCART capability, and famously allows for up to 720p/1080i via component cables (depending on the game).
- The Playstation 2 also allows for RGB SCART, so even the PS2 image quality via s-video is reduced from it's maximum potential. Of course by cleaning up your image you'd really notice how muddy and blurry the video output of the PS2 is.

You play how you want to play, and if you're satisfied with s-video then that's all good. However comparing all the consoles by saying they all look the same on a bad connection isn't really a fair comparison. From my comments you'll note I spoke quite a bit about maximum image output, s-video doesn't qualify unless we're talking N64.

BEST OUTPUT FORMATS

---NINTENDO---
(1983) NES - Composite
(1990) SNES - RGB Scart
(1996) N64 - Composite
(2001) Gamecube - Component
(2006) Wii - Composite (Back to the early 1980s, yey :roll: )
(2012) Wii U - HDMI
(2017) Switch - HDMI

---SEGA---
(1983) SG-1000 - Composite
(1985) Mark III/Master System - RGB SCART (It's 1985 and SEGA is already using a better output than a Nintendo Wii)
(1988) Mega Drive - RGB SCART
(1994) Saturn - RGB SCART
(1998) Dreamcast - VGA

---SONY---
(1994) Playstation - RGB SCART
(2000) Playstation 2 - RGB SCART
(2006) Playstation 3 - HDMI
(2013) Playstation 4 - HDMI
(2020) Playstation 5 - HDMI

---MICROSOFT---
(2002) Xbox - Component
(2005) Xbox 360 - Component (First release) / HDMI (Second release onwards)
(2013) Xbox One - HDMI
(2020) Xbox Series X/S - HDMI

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mistamontiel
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#14 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:37 pm

I know NES saved our arses but I love to hate it ={ Segaaa

SNES N64 GC that are all the bangers for me. Ever since after Nintendont is just peripheral-craze nonsense and gone with mature titles

Just want a box+controller GC2

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Ragfish
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#15 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:39 pm

Roareye wrote:Your problem is that you're playing all of them on S-Video, which is a sub-standard output.

My crt has component inputs too and the difference between s video and component on it is absolutely negligible. On an hdtv or an upscaler it makes a big difference, but on a crt it's practically identical, especially when sitting 4 feet away playing an actual game.

Roareye wrote:I'm aware it was the most common connection in America

I don't think I knew anyone back in the day who used s video, here we all used rf on anything older than ps1, and composite on anything ps1 and newer.

Roareye wrote:However comparing all the consoles by saying they all look the same on a bad connection isn't really a fair comparison.

I mean you're the one saying the Wii looks like crap while also saying it can't output anything better than composite.

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Roareye
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#16 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:49 pm

Ragfish wrote:
Roareye wrote:However comparing all the consoles by saying they all look the same on a bad connection isn't really a fair comparison.

I mean you're the one saying the Wii looks like crap while also saying it can't output anything better than composite.

Yeah, and I stand by it. I just don't understand why you'd use s-video when better connections are available, but if you can't see a difference that's cool. That's your personal preference. It doesn't change my main point. Playing all consoles on RF will undoubtedly make them all look bad. I'm saying the Wii looks worse than the Gamecube, Xbox, Dreamcast, Saturn and PlayStation because it is literally incapable of outputting anything better.

Comparing a GameCube on component to a Wii on composite and the Wii looks awful. Bear in mind that the Wii launched when CRTs were already replaced on the market entirely. I sold TVs from 2004 to 2016 and my store didn't sell a single brand new CRT in the entire time I worked there. We had a big selection, but no CRTs. If your defence of the poor output options on Wii was because CRTs were the standard then the Wii doesn't have that defence. It's the equivalent of releasing a PS5 with RF output.

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Ragfish
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#17 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:01 pm

Wait, so you actually think the Wii can't do anything better than composite? Because it can do component.

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Roareye
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#18 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:23 pm

Ragfish wrote:Wait, so you actually think the Wii can't do anything better than composite? Because it can do component.

I looked up component cables for Wii a long time ago. Came up with nothing. If it exists, then it's managed to improve on one area (poor output quality), but still lacks on hardware and controls. I'm happy to be proven wrong on the component front if cables do exist.

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Ragfish
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#19 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:54 pm

Wii component cables are extremely common, both official ones and third party ones exist.
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.co ... deo-cables

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Roareye
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Re: Every other Nintendo console is a revolutionary console. The console after that improves on the console.

Post#20 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:04 pm

Just looked it up. The Wii's component output is lower quality than the Gamecube by all accounts, but with GC component cables at around £200 ATM I can see the appeal for cost. Having said that an HDMI adapter for GameCube is kinda the best of both worlds, cheaper than official component but higher quality than Wii. GameCube still wins it, but I guess I can see the appeal if your budget is low. Fair enough.

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