Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

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dubcity
Super Sonic
Posts: 1578

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#11 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:42 am

MvC 2, Cannon Spike, Mars Matrix, Jojo BA are 350mb or less on disc. These could be CD pressed and still 1:1 creations. Project Justice on the other hand is 1GB and would tell what is really going on here. My guess is CDR repo or pressed CD with project Justice being some scene release.

Although... Is it possible to use data/data format and write a full game to DDCD tech and have DC read it since it uses same laser wavelength?

Sony DDCD Technology information taken from Wikipedia:
(Bold emphasis is mine)

The double-density compact disc (DDCD) is an optical disc technology developed by Sony using the same laser wavelength as a compact disc, namely 780 nm. The format is defined by the Purple Book standard document. Unlike the compact-disc technology it is based on, DDCD was designed exclusively for data with no audio capabilities. [1]

For a 12 cm disc, it doubles the original 650 MB to 1.3 GB capacity of a CD on recordable (DDCD-R) and rewritable (DDCD-RW) discs by narrowing the track pitch from 1.6 to 1.1 micrometers, and shortening the minimum pit length from 0.833 to 0.623 micrometers. The DDCD was also available in read-only format (DDCD-ROM). The specification allowed for both 12 cm and 8 cm discs, although it appears no 8 cm media was ever released.

The technology, released years after rewritable DVD technology, failed to acquire significant market share. The only DDCD recorder introduced was the Sony CRX200E. While the initial launch price of the drive and the disc ($249 and $2-3 respectively) was lower than the prices of DVD-RW drives and media ($1000 and $10 respectively), an 85% increase in storage compared to the standard 700 MB CDs was not enough to entice customers. A similar technology, however, was used in the GD-ROM discs primarily used for Sega Dreamcast software. DVD offered a significantly higher capacity - nearly four times more than DDCD-R with 4.7 GB on single layer discs and six and a half times more with 8.5 GB on double layer discs and would drop significantly in cost in the years after DDCD's launch.

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killer-elite
blackout!
Posts: 140

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#12 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:50 am

Esppiral wrote:The Instagram page is gone, also why are they printing bathe us version of these games when they are french? Us covers absolutely horrid.


I guess they owner wised up and took down the info or someone reported the post being its about piracy...lmfao https://www.instagram.com/nhanphanhippo/ here is the guys main page I will update the post in the main page

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killer-elite
blackout!
Posts: 140

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#13 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:55 am

mazonemayu wrote:Well, tbf you’d have to be an idiot to buy a fake in this day & age: every disc ever printed has a serial number printed on the data side, a quick google will tell you exactly what you vot


true but hopefully the games are being sold as reproductions and are not sealed/sold as legit copies...I know alot of newbies to the scene probably wouldn't know the first thing in looking at a high quality fake if its legit or not...its good to get that sort of info on what to look for and how to spot the difference

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killer-elite
blackout!
Posts: 140

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#14 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:03 am

dubcity wrote:MvC 2, Cannon Spike, Mars Matrix, Jojo BA are 350mb or less on disc. These could be CD pressed and still 1:1 creations. Project Justice on the other hand is 1GB and would tell what is really going on here. My guess is CDR repo or pressed CD with project Justice being some scene release.

Although... Is it possible to use data/data format and write a full game to DDCD tech and have DC read it since it uses same laser wavelength?

Sony DDCD Technology information taken from Wikipedia:
(Bold emphasis is mine)

The double-density compact disc (DDCD) is an optical disc technology developed by Sony using the same laser wavelength as a compact disc, namely 780 nm. The format is defined by the Purple Book standard document. Unlike the compact-disc technology it is based on, DDCD was designed exclusively for data with no audio capabilities. [1]

For a 12 cm disc, it doubles the original 650 MB to 1.3 GB capacity of a CD on recordable (DDCD-R) and rewritable (DDCD-RW) discs by narrowing the track pitch from 1.6 to 1.1 micrometers, and shortening the minimum pit length from 0.833 to 0.623 micrometers. The DDCD was also available in read-only format (DDCD-ROM). The specification allowed for both 12 cm and 8 cm discs, although it appears no 8 cm media was ever released.

The technology, released years after rewritable DVD technology, failed to acquire significant market share. The only DDCD recorder introduced was the Sony CRX200E. While the initial launch price of the drive and the disc ($249 and $2-3 respectively) was lower than the prices of DVD-RW drives and media ($1000 and $10 respectively), an 85% increase in storage compared to the standard 700 MB CDs was not enough to entice customers. A similar technology, however, was used in the GD-ROM discs primarily used for Sega Dreamcast software. DVD offered a significantly higher capacity - nearly four times more than DDCD-R with 4.7 GB on single layer discs and six and a half times more with 8.5 GB on double layer discs and would drop significantly in cost in the years after DDCD's launch.


it could be possible...I think they are using the best iso/roms they can get from either doing 1-1 pressings or using optimized files that have less filler/dummy files on them and or re-organized in a efficient way on the disc (I've read of some iso/roms that have been re-organized better to fit cd-rs for less wear in tear in the gd-rom laser) This is all speculation on my part being it would be a total waste of time to use any old rom/isos from the internet...To spend that kind of money and resources then to just skimp out on the files used in the discs themselves seems unlikely, but who knows being we dont have a solid source/review for comparison... hopefully the op updates us on his findings down the line...that is if any of this is not just a giant hoax

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SEGA RPG FAN
Developer
Posts: 601

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#15 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:19 am

My money is on "some french guys bought a pressing plant" turns into "some guys bought a nice disc printer"
PSO Dreamcast 100% Legit: Eda FOmarl, Automaton HUcast

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Tarnish
Prince of Persia
Posts: 342

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#16 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:38 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:My money is on "some french guys bought a pressing plant" turns into "some guys bought a nice disc printer"

If so, it's definitely a pretty nice disc printer.
https://www.facebook.com/10000010721173 ... 407517698/

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SEGA RPG FAN
Developer
Posts: 601

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#17 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:35 pm

Very nice, yes. Professional screen printing. I'm still going to maintain skepticism especially with Saturn discs because there is no way currently to get a non-original disc to boot on a non-modified system. If they have found a way, it could open up the system to homebrew releases.
PSO Dreamcast 100% Legit: Eda FOmarl, Automaton HUcast

bingobongo
minority
Posts: 65

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#18 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:04 pm

At best these fakes will be like the Chinese ones - You won't be able to tell from a photo taken from distance, but when you're holding it in your hands you'll see the ink colour is off compared to the original and the text won't be as pixel-sharp - it will look ever-so-slightly blurry.

Stupid thing to do though - and I'd like to see a photo of this 'CD pressing plant' before I believe they actually have one. I have my doubts. It would be far (far) easier to just find a plant that will do them for you (they exist - just need to look) The money aspect also doesn't make any sense - these things would cost thousands (and thousands) to procure - so how would some repro DC games help recoup that cost? They wouldn't. It would just be a fraction of the initial outlay.

Sounds like rubbish to me. They prob just got some Chinese fakes sent over.
Last edited by bingobongo on Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SEGA RPG FAN
Developer
Posts: 601

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#19 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:11 pm

No copy protection? Huh? You can burn a disc that has been re-authored to take advantage of an exploit. You can't just burn a copy of a retail disc.
PSO Dreamcast 100% Legit: Eda FOmarl, Automaton HUcast

bingobongo
minority
Posts: 65

Re: Dreamcast/Saturn Rare Games Reprint 2020

Post#20 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:32 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:No copy protection? Huh? You can burn a disc that has been re-authored to take advantage of an exploit. You can't just burn a copy of a retail disc.


I misunderstood the post, my bad.

Yes, the discs are protected - but the machine itself isn't.

You get a rip of a GDRom - press it to CD - get a half decent printer - you have the above.

I've seen the equivalent of PS2 repros way back in 2002 in Beijing. I even bought a couple. Yes, from a distance they look convincing - but not close-up. They never do from my experience. (note: the PS2 repros were box/disc copies but the discs aren't playable in an unmodded PS2 - just to be clear!)

But supposing they are real and look just like the originals. Surely the smart thing to do would be very slowly sell them on eBay - and make sure you don't arouse any suspicion. Announcing you're flooding the market with identical repro's would only kill the market stone dead. At least for a while until someone zooms in with a microscope and picks out some difference to differentiate between them (which they would do...eventually)

I could see banknote forger taking the time and effort to go into the details - but someone slaving over a pixel perfect copy of Cannon Spike for days on end, for a console which has been defunct for around 20 years?

Really?
Last edited by bingobongo on Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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