my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

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baliebox4916
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my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#1 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:12 pm

if some of the atomiswave games can be ported to the dreamcast maybe we might see unreleased naomi, hikaru or even model 3 games ported to the dreamcast in the coming years, i would kill to play some scud race, harley davidson and la riders, jurrasic park the lost world, star wars trilogy, jambo safari, king of route 66, nascar arcade, world kicks and the pre 9/11 version of smashing drive on dreamcast, if we can port atomiswave games in native arcade quality than we can port those games from the naomi, hikaru and model 3 (and maybe model 2) as well
a furry kitsune god whos stuck in a alternate reality

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Wombat
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#2 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:20 pm

Hate to bring it, but these are completely different things. The Atomiswave is pretty much a Dreamcast in a different shell. The Naomi, Hikaru and Model 3 are completely different. So where Atomiswave games can be converted/ported "relatively easy", games from those other arcade platforms are a whoooole other story.

OhBoy
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#3 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:23 pm

From what I understand that’s not going to happen. These Atomiswave games are basically Dreamcast games already. Atomiswave is identical to Dreamcast in almost every way, even the dev kit is just a modified Dreamcast dev kit. Naomi and the other arcade platforms are not using Dreamcast hardware and would require far more work, like trying to port a PS2 game to DC, and even then most games would not be able to run.

Edit: Wombat beat me to it lol

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baliebox4916
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#4 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:39 pm

hmm maybe if someone can reverse engineer the roms to work on a dreamcast iso or cdi using something like unity or c++ maybe it could work, i mean if they could port games like cave story and counterstrike to the dreamcast back in 2012 or when the gba version mother 3 was ported to the n64 back in 2013 maybe this could be a possibility one day i mean you see this stuff happen all the time with the amiga and similar systems
a furry kitsune god whos stuck in a alternate reality

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Anthony817
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#5 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:48 pm

It seems like you really don't quite understand the scope of porting games. Now, if you look at games that were recently reverse engineered with Ghidra, such as Super Mario 64, Driver 2 from PSX, and even the PS2 port of GTA III that was decompiled and the source was essentially recreated, you have to go that route. You need both a person, or a few people who are smart enough to both use Ghidra and understand how to recreate the source from it. This is the only way this would be possible. You are being too optimistic here my friend.

Best thing we can hope for is to ask for games that have their source code released some way. I even posted a thread about the recent Driver 2 PSX project. I am also hopeful some developers for DC may take interest in it, but again that is only possible because the source code is readily available for them to port said game.

Atomiswave games are literally running native Dreamcast code, with some minor changes that had to be made to adapt them to run on the console. Model 3 is less possible than even say, Naomi games, since Naomi is based on the same architecture as the Dreamcast, but in the case of Naomi and Naomi 2, it does have more sound memory and video and normal ram. So you are going to have to go on manually by hand and optimize the models, textures and sound to get it to fit on the DC's limited memory. No small undertaking.
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Esppiral
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#6 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:14 pm

Games like Monkey ball should be possible I don't think that game fulfills the ram of the Naomi.

And the same theory applies, atomiswave games have been ported to the Naomi because the code is already native to the hardware.

Chewie_granada
shadow
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#7 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:30 pm

That is not possible, model 3 is more powerful in many aspects, and naomi is more similar but has more ram. From what i understand More than ports, these atomiswave games are conversions, like from neogeo aes to mvs, or neo geo cd. Even porting to neogeo cd seems more complicated than atomiswave to dc due to ram limitations.

That been said, i hope Blade: the edge of darkness (aka Severance) gets ported to the dreamcast. The source code has been reverse-engineered and the game seems within the dc capabilities.

DavidMclindal
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#8 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:49 pm

Not gonna happen, at least for now.

Naomi games:

From what I've been reading from magazine interviews, most Naomi games that were ported to the Dreamcast back in the day took some time, from 3 to 6 months of reprogramming. Things like Ikaruga or Under Defeat were probably done in less than a month, but I remember reading about Virtua Tennis 1 and 2, Virtua Striker 2, Crazy Taxi 1 and 2, and more demanding games like Ferrari F355 that took more than 6 months to port.
And we are talking about the good old Naomi board which besides having more RAM/VRAM is 99% the same hardware as the Dreamcast. They had to downgrade textures, optimize polygon count / frame rate / access transfer rate, replace entire soundtrack to redbook audio and so on. All of this because Sega wanted pristine 480p VGA native output even on the Dreamcast ports. In my opinion some of these games would've been way more easily ported with just a lower resolution. The casual user didn't care that much about extreme anti aliasing and sharp image quality.

Though to be honest, I don't think there's much to port from Naomi. Yes, it would be nice to have Monkey Ball, Jingy Storm, Jambo Safari and Wave Runner GP, and a bunch of 2D fighters (Melty Blood.. etc) and I'm probably forgetting some but I'm not missing those arcade games on the Dreamcast. It's just more of the same arcadey genres that the system already has tons of titles.


Model 3:

This is a whole different monster. Completely different hardware, and it has an extremely expensive double GPU custom chipset which had unparalleled geometry processing featuring advanced graphics effects. While its resolution may be a bit lower than Dreamcast, it still outputs an amazing image quality and more importantly its GPU features not only a high polygon count at 60fps but it has better highlight reflections from multiple light sources. Just check Scud Race or Daytona Usa 2.

IMHO, an hypothetical Scud Race port to the Dreamcast, would take a professional team going full time from the ground up to get it right. It wouldn't be a port but a whole reprogrammed game that would take at least a year with full Sega support, with a new development kit and stuff.

The same could be said for Naomi 2 games. It may be easier to port them (heavily downgraded though) because of Naomi 2 being a Naomi on steroids, it still would take a professional team work to do it.

I'm not discarding it though. I'm sure some crazy team of fans/programmers could do it, but it will be just a couple of games.
I can see Scud Race or even Virtua Fighter 4 running on the Dreamcast. Someday maybe....

Cass
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#9 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:05 pm

So Naomi in theory would be possible but realistically for individuals to reverse engineer this on their own would be a very long, complicated and difficult task. I'm not writing off the DC community just yet and if this amazing nes to c64 port of Super Mario Bros can be done after 30 years I've got high hopes for 2030 :p

https://youtu.be/6jIrR9Iqq4Q

cloofoofoo
Prince of Persia
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Re: my hopes future dreamcast arcade ports

Post#10 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:30 pm

Damn your expectations are crazy. Unless source code is made available and a team of enthusiast programmers are at hand theres absolutely no chance.

Sega hikaru is some respects seems to be more powerful than naomi 2 and doubled up sh4 cpus and aica sound dsp. Not to mention a crap ton of ram that surpasses naomi 1. Its gpu(which might actually be 2 gpus) is completely custom and can do 100s of lights.

Naomi 1 the biggest hold back is twice the vram and main ram and 4x the sound ram. It isnt meant to stream stuff from disc instead either a memory board who loads the whole disc at once or really fast cart system. Even trying to rework the assets is hard because you have to reverse the custom texture formats and custom model formats and maybe even custom audio formats. It pretty common that even on the dreamcast developers didnt adhere to the standards and wrote their own custom stuff. So while this one might be possible its unrealistic to expect one person to do it.

Naomi 2 isnt even possible. 100s mb of ram/vram . Even seperate ram for polygon pool because it used hardware not available on dc/naomi 1 to generate and light polygon's up to 10 million polygons per second.

Model 3... If you dont know the difference theres just no point.

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