VGA Box and Framemeister??

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shadow_man
noob
Posts: 4

VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:26 pm

Hello guys, I recently bought a Framemeister to play on my Dreamcast and my Retro Consoles with the best possible Quality on my HDTV.

I now wonder if there would be any gain in image quality when I buy a VGA box and hook up this box over RGB Scart with the Framemeister. Would this lead to better imange quality compared to hooking up the DC directly with the Framemeister over RGB Scart?

Did anybody tried this out so far?

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Raen
Crazy Taxi!
Posts: 538

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:51 am

The Dreamcast doesn't output 480p over SCART, only 240p/480i. So, if you want the console to directly output 480p, and get better image quality, you have to get a VGA Box. The Toro VGA box from Beharbros can output 480p over VGA and over SCART, because it has a sync combiner built-in. Then, you can hook it up to the Framemeister, to have your image upscaled to whatever resolution you have set up, like this:

Dreamcast - Toro VGA Box - SCART cable/JP21 adapter - Framemeister - Monitor

http://retrorgb.com/dreamcast.html
The info on this page is very informative, and the video pretty useful. The Toro is explained at 7:25.

On the other side, the Framemeister can convert an 240p/480i source to 480p, but then again, the Framemeister is known to handle 240p and 480i better than 480p, has a slight input lag and adds some picture noise: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Dreamcast

At this point, you are better off with an OSSC, which is a line doubler with almost no input lag, as opposed to the Framemeister which is a pure upscaler (investigate the differences), using the following configuration:

Dreamcast - Toro VGA Box - SCART Cable - OSSC - Monitor

http://retrorgb.com/upscalercompare.html

That said, using the Framemeister with the Dreamcast, I doubt that you will get an AMAZING increase of image quality, even if you get a VGA Box. But even so, the Framemeister can still do its job and be very useful, because just like the OSSC, also allows to play non-VGA compatible games, that only output 15,6 kHz no matter what, on screens that only support 31,2 kHz.

To summarize, I doubt that you will get a substantial increase of image quality if you buy a VGA Box to make the DC output 480p directly, if you already have a Framemeister. If you don't, the the choice nowadays is the OSSC over the Framemeister, when it comes to the Dreamcast.
Last edited by Raen on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Xiden
Wazza
Posts: 1218

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#3 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:06 am

Raen wrote:Dreamcast - Toro VGA Box - SCART cable/JP21 adapter - Framemeister - Monitor


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. This exactly

shadow_man
noob
Posts: 4

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#4 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:04 am

Thanks a lot for the reply. Yes, I have ordered the Framemeister already and I should get it soon hopefully. I know about he OSSC, but I choose the framemeister because my TV is known to have some Issues with the OSSC. I also live in the Pal Region and my preferred pal Retro consoles except the Dreamcast, of course, aren't capable of outputting 480p any. In 240p and 480i the FM is nice I have heard.

I will think about that issue again. At first, I will try out how the Games look when I connect the DC directly to the FM. Maybe I am very about the result already. If not I will consider getting the VGA box, although the result might not be much better than direct rgb connection via the Framemeister.

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Raen
Crazy Taxi!
Posts: 538

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#5 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:26 pm

While I'm also from a PAL territory (Portugal), I don't have neither one of them at the moment. While I mostly play Dreamcast when it comes to retro consoles, I plan to get the OSSC at a given time, because my Sony Trinitron Multiscan CPD-G500 21'' CRT monitor (VGA + RGB BNC inputs) doesn't support 15,6 kHz, and so I can't play those non-VGA compatible games, but haven't decided to take the plunge - while it's not as expensive as the Framemeister, it's still expensive :lol: It's something on my whish list for quite a while.

If you play other consoles, other than the Dreamcast, the Framemeister will serve you well. As for the Dreamcast, and due to the fact that de Framemeister doesn't deal that good with 480p, you can always bypass the Framemeister and connect the monitor directly to the Toro VGA Box like suggested in the second link I posted above:

«With the universal VGA box modification, you can connect the Dreamcast directly to the D in 2 port on the back of the XRGB3. The XRGB3 will then process all incoming signals, 15khz and 31khz, allowing you to play all games in RGB with no cable swapping. The downside to this is that the XRGB3 does add some picture noise to the image when running in 640x480 (VGA) mode. Remember to turn the low-pass filter OFF when running VGA games. The alternative is, of course, some kind of RGB switching/splitting arrangement that allows you to bypass the XRGB3 entirely when you are playing VGA games.»

Something like a SCART switch (if your TV only has 1 SCART input, if it has SCART at all), where you can select between the Framemeister for 240p/480i games and the Toro for 480p (using the SCART connector the Toro has), or just connect the monitor directly to the Toro using a SCART cable (if your TV has at least 2 SCART inputs, one for the Toro and the other for the Framemeister, and select the source in the TV options).

If your TV has a VGA (D-Sub 15) input, you can also connect the TV to the Toro using a VGA cable, if not there are also VGA to HDMI active adapters (simply an adapter, not a scaler).

Hope that's not too confusing. You have multiple options on how to bypass the Framemeister for 480p games for optimal image quality, depending on the inputs your TV supports.

That way, for 240p and 480i games you can use the Framemeister, and for 480p games you can use the Toro VGA box. You will always have the best image quality possible in that scenario.

shadow_man
noob
Posts: 4

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#6 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:23 pm

@Raen I am from Austria btw.

Thanks for your detailed answer. NO it is not to confusing. I can understand everything.I will go with the Toro VGA Box then.

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Raen
Crazy Taxi!
Posts: 538

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#7 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:40 pm

Glad I could help. Beharbros are from Turkey, so shipping is usually fast (it took around a week for me) and they declare their items around 20 € in the parcel, to avoid customs charges ;)

https://www.beharbros.com/

shadow_man
noob
Posts: 4

Re: VGA Box and Framemeister??

Post#8 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:24 am

Thanks a lot for the Link. I will order the toro as fast as possible.

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