"WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

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dark
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#31 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:56 pm

My grandfather in the USA had webtv for many years. Basically he had been averse to getting a real computer because he was completely unfamiliar with using them and was intimidated by them, and webtv was marketed to people like him as a way to more easily use the internet and send e-mails to your family without needing to learn how to navigate windows or mac operating systems.

Fundamentally, it was like a dumbed down internet browser. The overall experience was very comparable to using planetweb on your dreamcast. It allowed you to browse the internet on your TV with the included keyboard, but you couldn't do stuff like downloading large files since there was no HDD in the webtv unit. I wouldn't be surprised if the webtv disc for dreamcast is a re-skinned sega browser, the functionality that I experienced with webtv (a simple web browser on your tv) would have been very similar to the existing dreamcast browsers and I'd expect the dreamcast webtv software to be the same.

wtv-411
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#32 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:10 pm

dark wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the webtv disc for dreamcast is a re-skinned sega browser, the functionality that I experienced with webtv (a simple web browser on your tv) would have been very similar to the existing dreamcast browsers and I'd expect the dreamcast webtv software to be the same.


I highly doubt that. From using the Dreamcast version myself, it functions almost identically to the WebTV boxes and doesn't have any telltale signs of possibly being a reskin of some other browser. The HTML pages used for WebTV for Dreamcast's UI also take advantage of WebTV's own proprietary flavor of HTML, which would take much more effort to implement than a simple reskin, if you ask me. Also take into account WebTV was designed and released before the Dreamcast ever came out, in 1996 to be specific. From what information is left on the internet that I've read up on, everything for the WebTV box firmware was designed from the ground up, including the browser. I assume the browser in WebTV DC had a similar upbringing.

Although, now that you mention it, I'm now wondering if the WebTV DC browser supported VMU downloads.

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RoMagnusLarsson
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#33 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:22 pm


wtv-411
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#34 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:07 pm

Isn't that the TOSEC Dreamcast collection? Already well aware of that containing the WebTV GD-ROM dumps. It's also available on the Internet Archive if you don't want to deal with torrents: https://archive.org/details/tosecdcus20190822.

Anyway, hasn't been much progress in terms of WebTV Dreamcast specific stuff from the past two months. However, I have been working on and off on a scan of the WebTV Dreamcast manual, which I hope to finish pretty soon and upload to Sega Retro. Or if anyone else wants to take up on the offer (which IK at least one person has), then feel free to do so.

Now here's a weird, but important proposition for you lot: any of you got a pre-owned Japanese Dreamcast? Might want to consider dumping the contents of the console's NVRAM in the off chance it might contain data from the Japanese WebTV service. The main thing I'm hoping to get out of them are the TellyScripts (dialing scripts required to make the WebTV software dial in to a suitable access number) from the official Dreamcast WebTV service. But as long as the dump contains the text "WEBTV CONNECTION KIT", then you're gold and free to inspect the dump for any other WebTV-related data. If you happen to get an NVRAM dump that meets this criteria, then if you want to at least try to figure out if it contains TellyScript data, do a string search for "ANDY" (the magic bytes used in the TellyScript header; case sensitive BTW). I can't guarantee that the data will be searchable in that manner, though. In any case, having the NVRAM dumps IMO will at least ensure that some content from the Japanese WebTV service can be preserved, even if it isn't anything directly from the Japanese WebTV servers.
Last edited by wtv-411 on Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FlorreW
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#35 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:20 am

I have a Jap console , how may I see/read the contents of its NVRAM ?

wtv-411
undertow
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#36 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:16 am

If I'm not mistaken, the httpd-ack software lets you download the contents of the flash memory as a dc_flash.bin file. Sadly that option is limited to people who own the rare and expensive broadband adapter (I'm not one of those people, lol). I'm not even sure if the WebTV TellyScripts are even stored in that area of the console. With my personal American console that at one point had a TellyScript stored from a third party WebTV server I connected it to, using the Flashrom eraser tool on it numerous times didn't appear to wipe out that data, or at least when booting up the disc, it didn't act like it never connected to the service before (easy way to tell this is if you have 4 options on the WebTV main menu; if you do, then it's running on a "virgin" configuration). I'm thinking that data is probably stored in another area of the Dreamcast flash or on some other type of NVRAM entirely (personally hope not), but I don't possess the know-how to disassemble the game binary and figure it out myself.

I'm competent enough with programming to consider writing a tool that can directly dump the Dreamcast memory from the console without any crazy hardware hacking, but only real way that data could be transferred out of the console without relying on hard-to-find accessories is probably the serial port. Not making any promises with going ahead with that idea myself.

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WedgeStratos
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#37 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:13 am

I've gathered a small sampling of information surrounding WebTV's release on the Dreamcast from magazines, though I lack the foundation to even properly understand Japanese, let alone translating.

https://segaretro.org/images/3/34/Dream ... _Vol08.pdf Mentioned on page 6 of this DreamInformation flyer as an alternative to Dream Passport and Dricas.

https://retrocdn.net/images/c/cb/DCM_JP ... 999-11.pdf Page 5, Full span advert for the service and its intended debut in April.

やりかたが違う!
The way to do it is different!
サービスが違う!
The service is different!
カンタンさが違う!
Easy is different!
音がちがう!
The sound is different!


https://retrocdn.net/images/b/b2/DCM_JP ... 999-12.pdf And on page 11 of this one, explaining it in more detail in JP DCM's "LAND MARK" news section.

Now learning that Fujitsu was in the wrenches, that gives me a rough bit of numbers... WebTV Networks K.K. was founded as a subsidiary in Japan to US-based WebTV Networks Inc, and that seems to have happened on August 2nd, 1997, if wtv-411's information is correct. They finally announced on October 2, 1997 of their plans to introduce WebTV to the JP markets. Sounds like a lot of the work translating was either done fast and loose, or was completed well in advance, probably with Fujitsu's assistance, to meet that December launch date. Earliest information then about the debut on Dreamcast, at least right now, dates to the 3/26/99 magazine linked above, and the later April magazine just touches on what the details were for it. There may be more info in a magazine from two weeks later, but I lack the skill and time to dive deep and come up with results from that. This is all backlogged info I'd shared in the WebTV community back in April of this year, but it's at least up and here for others to read and help with!

wtv-411
undertow
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#38 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:04 pm

Got word from mrneo that the WebTV TellyScript on Dreamcast is indeed stored in flash, and the current flash eraser tool just doesn't seem to want to erase it for some reason. So yeah, go ahead and dump those Japanese Dreamcast flash chips for any potential TellyScripts! :P I also learned that you can actually dump the console's memory through serial from DreamShell with its console's "addr" command (IK 4.0 RC3 has the console, not sure about versions before or after that). I have no idea how to operate that though and it doesn't seem to have a lot of documentation, so for now, use that option at your own discretion.

EDIT: Just adding this info for any newcomers who happened to just stumble upon this thread. The easiest way to find any instance of WebTV for Dreamcast's flash data in the Dreamcast flash dump is by searching for the ASCII string "WEBTV CONNECTION KIT" (without quotes). Searching for TellyScript data in the area of flash where WebTV for DC stores its data should be as easy as searching for ASCII characters "ANDY" (again, without quotes). I also want to find a way to let you guys extract these TellyScripts without demanding you send me your entire flash dump as I'm aware games like PSO store login credentials in there and I don't want to potentially scare people by doing that, no thanks in part because of the fact I'm basically unknown here. I'll look into writing a tool to extract the scripts from flash once I figure out how they're stored.

wtv-411
undertow
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#39 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:54 pm

Finally figured out how to use the DreamShell addr command after messing around in its console for a bit. To use the command to dump your flash through serial (in DreamShell 4.0 RC3):

Code: Select all

addr -r 00200000 262143 <location to save memory dump>


While I unfortunately don't have a TellyScript stored on my Dreamcast (and after trying to mess with the WebTV mini server by zefie, wasn't able to get the WebTV software to save a TellyScript to flash), I did notice that the existing flash data saved by WebTV for DC appeared to use some form of byte swapping - the same kind used in hard drives in various WebTV boxes that use that kind of storage. In that case, I'll have to analyze a flash dump with a WebTV TellyScript in it to see how it's stored. Might do that in the coming weekend with a different 3rd party server since I'm bummed out from the last attempt to get WebTV for DC to store a TellyScript.

wtv-411
undertow
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Re: "WebTV for Dreamcast" Awareness Thread

Post#40 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:51 pm

I can now confirm that TellyScripts are stored normally in flash after finding out that WebTV DC will store them from the server regardless of if it changes the main menu shown on boot up or not. So yeah, get to dumping those flash chips! :D

Method to find the script data in a flash dump is in post #38.

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