/legit upgrades - enable them or not?

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

As some of you might know, /legit is a command that checks your inventory when you call the command itself, when you join a game, when you play a game and when you pick items from the bank, this is made to block obviously hacked items.

Several more additions to the command are planned and i would like players or users to opinate about them, because while they are planned, i don't know if all will be enabled on vega.

So here's the future verifications:

• Name colors
  
• C-Rank "hacking"
  
• Test for items that are equipped that should not be able to be equipped
  
• Checking the user's stats to make sure they're valid
  
• Checking the user's equipped items versus their stats

Checking the user's equipped items versus their stats
Checking the user's stats to make sure they're valid

This is mainly to check if all players are playing in the same way, as you know, some mods and some cheats will affect your stats and since some players don't say anything to the game leader then it's better to have this verification enabled.

Test for items that are equipped that should not be able to be equipped

GOE or god of equip and certain modified games alow chars to use equips that are not alowed, like a racast using s-red's blades.
This can be easily detected, but i also know that not all players know what items classes can use, this can lead to pontential non legit players come into your game, however this is a very rare situation, ppl often either hack unobtainable items (wich are detected and blocked) or avoid the legit game completely (to avoid beeing reported and punished afterwards), but in the end it's still usefull

Name colors
C-Rank "hacking"

This one is simple, by using normal gameplay you cannot change your name color or your srank name, still, it is possible to do it and some ppl will join.
Despite not beeing legit i am not going to add this verification to vega, i want quality games and i'm sure many of you want the same, i'm not going to prevent a player from entering a game just because his name is black, having a different srank name or name color won't affect any game at all no matter how long you use it.
I can say that nearly all (if not all) players that have a different name color or srank name do use other cheats, it's like a prediction and the other cheats are often detected either by the command or by looking at the char.
Just in case there are legit players around using colored names, would you prevent those players from playing with you?
Are you capable of saying "i don't play with you because your srank name says 1337 instead of bu-ei"?

So for me here's what will be enabled and what won't be enabled:

• Name colors - Not enabled
  
• C-Rank "hacking" - Not enabled
  
• Test for items that are equipped that should not be able to be equipped - Enabled
  
• Checking the user's stats to make sure they're valid - Enabled
  
• Checking the user's equipped items versus their stats - Enabled

Bluecrab if you read this, add a level verifier, obviously a lvl 451 ramar would be very easy to detect and that's why they would avoid the legit game, still, in case a newbie doesn't know the max level, this will protect him, however a lvl +200 char often indicates several other cheats, in fact, most lvl 200 chars around indicate the player is not legit.
It's not common cheating so it's semi usefull.

[BlueCrab]

Keep in mind that none of this stuff has been programmed into the code yet, and some of it would be much farther off than others (such as checking users stats and verifying equipment versus the stats). I don't know when any of this stuff would be coming, and its not going to be within the next few days, for certain (or even probably the next few weeks).

I personally find all the checks that I've discussed both publicly and privately to be quite useful, otherwise I wouldn't discuss them further than just flat-out rejecting them.

As even you have said K_I_R_E_E_K, many, if not pretty much all people playing with hacked C-Ranks and colored names probably have other hacks in place as well. That is why those two checks are quite useful. After all, if someone's using a trainer, what would be the point of just turning on colored names when they can also turn on God of Equip, no weapon drop on death, or other things like that? A lot of those things just aren't possible to detect unless people abuse them, and others notice it and report it.

Also, I don't know if this is your true intention here or not, K_I_R_E_E_K, but the way your post is worded seems to suggest that the stuff that you've disapproved of won't be enabled regardless of what the rest of the community thinks about them. In other conversations I've had with you, you indicated that this wasn't the case and that you were going to go with the opinion of the community.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

My opinion has it's value, still, if ppl think it should be enabled then they can speak and show reasons to why it should be that way.

We have plenty of time to discuss things and if the majority of the community wants to block those 2 things then i won't pass over them, i don't want my opinions to be the rules that define what's acepted or not.
However, if things go quiet or if ppl accept my view then 3 out of 5 things will be enabled.

seems to suggest that the stuff that you've disapproved of won't be enabled regardless of what the rest of the community thinks about them

Sort of, in the end impulse is the one that will decide and i will say what should be enabled, but that can change, as you said, things are not coded, so we have plenty of time to think about it.
My basic opinion is done, but i'm also giving an oportunity for the community to speak.

I'm not trying to trow good ideas away, but some are usefull or have atleast a light impact and others are simply a waste and might prevent good gameplay from happening.

Peace

[Favrenation]

I think the question is; should hackers not be allowed at all? Even though i don't like hacks certain people hack and if they play with other people that hack then it really doesn't matter i guess. I don't see why you wouldn't like the changes though because you don't have to run the legit command. I used to play with people who constantly used the Needle which as far as I know can't be obtained unless called upon by the server op. Whenever i hosted i just never ran the command.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

The problem is what can be in a legit game or not, it's a fact non legit players can play normally, but once a game has that rule, it must be respected, should colored named players respect that rule? do they need to respect it at all? why can't they enter?

The needles can be obtained, but they are srank and usually no one is in the mood to do cmode to get a no % needle, so they make one with 60%s, wich are blocked by the command.

It's not mandatory to use the command, it's merely a choice of the game leader, similar to adding a password.

[BlueCrab]

The problem is what can be in a legit game or not, it's a fact non legit players can play normally, but once a game has that rule, it must be respected, should colored named players respect that rule? do they need to respect it at all? why can't they enter?

The key is that things like colored names are indicative of other hacks being in place. You've even said this yourself. These are easy to detect and act on. Unfortunately many of the other hacks are either rather difficult to detect or downright impossible.

If someone wants a truly legit experience in their team, they'd want to exclude people with hacks that can be enabled by a trainer. If someone has consciously set /legit, it would only make sense to exclude people that have a trainer active. Names being invalid colors and hacked C-Ranks can be indicative of such trainers being in place, and thus should be targeted. While they don't particularly "break" the game so to speak, they do indicate that other hacks that cannot be detected have a good possibility of being in place (once again, you've said so K_I_R_E_E_K).

On a related note... I find it rather odd that you'd stand up and defend things that are obviously not legit like colored names and hacked C-Ranks, while calling out Ives' quests as not legit and implying that anyone who's played them is not legit. Honestly, it seems to me that your whole argument against Ives' quests is that they were made by him, which kinda annoys me... I know you two don't exactly see eye-to-eye on many things related to PSO, but I'd rather if you'd at least try to get along with him. I really don't like such fights being dragged on... I respect both your opinions and his, and I appreciate the work that both of you have done to help to improve Sylverant.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

If someone wants a truly legit experience in their team, they'd want to exclude people with hacks that can be enabled by a trainer. If someone has consciously set /legit, it would only make sense to exclude people that have a trainer active. Names being invalid colors and hacked C-Ranks can be indicative of such trainers being in place, and thus should be targeted. While they don't particularly "break" the game so to speak, they do indicate that other hacks that cannot be detected have a good possibility of being in place (once again, you've said so K_I_R_E_E_K).

Yes, that trainer thingy. interesting.

On a related note... I find it rather odd that you'd stand up and defend things that are obviously not legit like colored names and hacked C-Ranks, while calling out Ives' quests as not legit and implying that anyone who's played them is not legit

I said on the legit command topic that any advancement done by non official means will be considered illegit, there is no advancement with an orange name instead of a gold looking one. It can be used and abused that in the end.....it's just a normal player.

Ives' quests is that they were made by him

not really, quests such as MSB, last hope, fake in blue, forest of fear were never done by him, but i still think the same about them.
So i don't like ives, but even if i liked him, the way of thinking would be the same.

I know you two don't exactly see eye-to-eye on many things related to PSO, but I'd rather if you'd at least try to get along with him

"We don't need to be good friends to fight good enemies"
I have tried, i gave up, i moved on.

I respect your decisions as always, still i need to reflect to see if they can be placed on vega.
I did like that trainer thingy, because there aren't many that change the color and the ones that do, have more hacks.
Still i am concerned about those who use the trainer just to change the color of the name of a lvl 1 char that still want to play normally, i know the odds are really low, that may change my opinion eventually.

In a way it's a waste, take the weapon specials and common items, it's impossible to have a blizzard saber, but ppl go straight for the double cannon, so if some effort has to be made, it has to be on something usefull. (besides, i don't have info or facts about what is or not possible in those situation)
It's true that it will be very rare blocking a person with a colored name instead of a hacked needle, but it's easy to do according to you.
It all comes down to beeing fair, i know we may be talking about 2 or 3 chars at most and that doesn't present much weight and that's why either decision will barely do any difference.
I may recomend impulse to enable those 2 verifications, we shall see.

Don't take me wrong Bluecrab, i like discussing things, i wish to understand all points of view to choose the best one.

[Favrenation]

Well the fact that you don't have to run the legit command in the first place i think, merits the including of colored names. A compromise would be to have two legit commands one with and one without.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

hmm, 2 would be a waste basicly because the detection of colored names wouldn't be a common practice
I uderstand why it could be included in the legit checker.

I'm gona try and say how things will be done.
color name detection and srank name checker will be implemented, if a legit player with a blue name is unable to enter the game, he can use choice search and ask a normal locked game, ppl leave, remake the game but with a password instead, this will prevent the non legit players from getting in while alowing the blue name player to play with others.
Obviously if everyone used a colored name, it would be a pain remaking games, sending pms and stuff, since it's really rare for something like this to happen and since a colored name or srank name is a revertable situation then the changes will be implemented.

Not a huge revolution in illegit detection, but i guess not to many problems may apear from it.
Just to make clear that the gameplay is normal, some players and even me would play with a colored name player, despite not beeing aceptable when /legit is enabled.

[Macabre]

Edited to not say possible mean things.

How can I check my items?