Official Sega Saturn NetLink Guide

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Xiden
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#51 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:46 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:
Xerxes3rd wrote:Side note: has anyone here actually played any of the Saturn games over a modem before? Is it actually playable?


I used to play Virtual On once in a while with a friend back when real phone lines were a given. It was virtually indistinguishable from a split-screen match, but he was also only about two miles away from me. I've also played all of the racing games using a phone line simulator between two Saturns. The main concern is going to be finding out at what point the latency becomes too much for the game to handle.

A good first step in testing would be to have two adapters on the same LAN, dial into one and have the second connected to a Dreampi and make sure that you can at least get a solid internet connection. Internet connections are tolerant of latency and packets being out of order so it would be a low bar, but important to verify.

The second step would be to do the same but with a Saturn connected to each adapter (still in a LAN setting). If that test passes, then full fledged internet testing could commence.


I can verify that Saturn netlink internet & email via the Dreampi works very well :)

I was just pondering an idea... not even sure how to accomplish it or its its even a plausable idea. But is it possible to dial out from a usb modem to another usb modem? (I guess like a fax mode??) Since thats basically what the Netlink does is dials out to the other Saturn and the 2nd Saturn awaits for a "Phone Call". Seems like that would work. But I'm not familiar with modem commands on how to accomplish that. Also getting two dreampi's to connect in some way where one of the dreampis can be listing for a saturn call. I mean I guess thats what VOIP is doing anyways.

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SEGA RPG FAN
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#52 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:07 pm

A (usb) modem can dial another (usb) modem with the right software running on the clients, that functionality is what led to the original DC-PC server setups and by extension the DreamPi. The hard part has always been trying to do it without a real phone line in-between which led to various tricks to get the modem to answer without a ring. With a phone line simulator it's a piece of cake.

You may be overthinking things right now. What we need to test is pretty basic, just the ability of modem communication to reliably pass between two VOIP adapters. Doesn't matter what's on either end as long as they are meant to communicate with each other. I suggested a Dreampi on one and the Saturn on the other because it's a connection we know will work if the VOIP adapters were removed from the scenario.
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Xiden
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#53 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:28 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:A (usb) modem can dial another (usb) modem with the right software running on the clients, that functionality is what led to the original DC-PC server setups and by extension the DreamPi. The hard part has always been trying to do it without a real phone line in-between which led to various tricks to get the modem to answer without a ring. With a phone line simulator it's a piece of cake.

You may be overthinking things right now. What we need to test is pretty basic, just the ability of modem communication to reliably pass between two VOIP adapters. Doesn't matter what's on either end as long as they are meant to communicate with each other. I suggested a Dreampi on one and the Saturn on the other because it's a connection we know will work if the VOIP adapters were removed from the scenario.


I'm kinda wondering how the dialing another IP address works with these VOIP adapters? I think people have gotten VOIP to work but it was super laggy. But if we configure them as you say it seems like that would fix everything. I'm not certain I understand what you mean by "Dreampi on one and Saturn on the other" are you meaning VOIP adapter with one saturn and dreampi with the other Saturn?

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SEGA RPG FAN
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#54 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:36 pm

You set them up so when you dial a number like "22" it actually connects directly to another adapter. Normal VOIP goes through a service provider and you rarely have any control over the settings in the adapter which is why you need an unlocked version for this.

What I'm trying to describe for the initial testing is:
Saturn>VOIP 1>Router>VOIP 2>Dreampi>Internet

We know Saturn>Dreampi>Internet works so we are inserting the two VOIP adapters to test if the chain still works with them in it.

Eventually we want:
Saturn 1>VOIP 1>Internet>VOIP 2>Saturn 2

We have to introduce one variable at a time to make troubleshooting easier. I probably wasn't making that clear.
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Xiden
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#55 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:58 pm

Ah ok I see what you are saying now that makes sense now.

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itsthinkingstill
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#56 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:51 pm

I do hope this will eventually happen as analog services in north America are slowly fading out, my real dial finally just got shut down, at least for preservation for these games.

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SEGA RPG FAN
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#57 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:52 pm

itsthinkingstill wrote:I do hope this will eventually happen as analog services in north America are slowly fading out, my real dial finally just got shut down, at least for preservation for these games.

I'm not super optimistic that this will work, but as far as I know no one has yet tried an optimal point-to-point VOIP link, it's all been through a provider. All of those previous tests have ended poorly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be done.
PSO Dreamcast 100% Legit: Eda FOmarl, Automaton HUcast

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Xiden
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#58 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:43 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:
itsthinkingstill wrote:I do hope this will eventually happen as analog services in north America are slowly fading out, my real dial finally just got shut down, at least for preservation for these games.

I'm not super optimistic that this will work, but as far as I know no one has yet tried an optimal point-to-point VOIP link, it's all been through a provider. All of those previous tests have ended poorly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be done.


Biggest question is if your suggested method removes the delay or enough of it where its no longer a real issue. I've been still reading a little up on MOIP (modem over IP), maybe that will be more broadly supported someday. I am curious how the Sega Saturn Yabuse emulator handles Netlink emulation over LAN

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SEGA RPG FAN
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#59 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:21 pm

Xiden wrote:Biggest question is if your suggested method removes the delay or enough of it where its no longer a real issue. I've been still reading a little up on MOIP (modem over IP), maybe that will be more broadly supported someday. I am curious how the Sega Saturn Yabuse emulator handles Netlink emulation over LAN
Believe me, if I still had two Saturns I would pull the trigger on a couple of adapters and test it out. I'm a terrible impulse buyer, but I don't think I could justify buying another Saturn, plus they've kind of gone up in price since I was last in the market for one.

I've looked a little into MOIP too and it sounds interesting, but I can't find any consumer equipment that supports it. Modem pass-through with packet redundancy I think is the best we can try out.
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Xiden
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Re: SaturnPi

Post#60 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:48 pm

SEGA RPG FAN wrote:
Xiden wrote:Biggest question is if your suggested method removes the delay or enough of it where its no longer a real issue. I've been still reading a little up on MOIP (modem over IP), maybe that will be more broadly supported someday. I am curious how the Sega Saturn Yabuse emulator handles Netlink emulation over LAN
Believe me, if I still had two Saturns I would pull the trigger on a couple of adapters and test it out. I'm a terrible impulse buyer, but I don't think I could justify buying another Saturn, plus they've kind of gone up in price since I was last in the market for one.

I've looked a little into MOIP too and it sounds interesting, but I can't find any consumer equipment that supports it. Modem pass-through with packet redundancy I think is the best we can try out.


I also lack two saturns to test with, but I'll be picking up one of those adapters on friday. Are you still planning to test with me if you can? Otherwise I'll have to see if I can borrow a friends saturn for testing

I actually have two netlinks and I have 2 broken saturns for parts lol. But still have my trusty modded Saturn ready to rock :)

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