The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

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MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#91 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:11 pm

HerzogZwei1989 wrote:I think it's rather interesting how the WiiU specs are such a closely guarded secret.
Nintendo's ninja's must be everywhere, LOL.


Actually no.

The CPU "Expresso" is actually a scaled down version of PS3's 4 CELL.

The GPU is "ATI Radeon 4770". Which makes it weaker than the average PC.

I'm glad SEGA of Japan has shown no interest in it at all.

Comrade Snarky
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Posts: 704

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#92 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:59 pm

MrSega wrote:
HerzogZwei1989 wrote:I think it's rather interesting how the WiiU specs are such a closely guarded secret.
Nintendo's ninja's must be everywhere, LOL.


I'm glad SEGA of Japan has shown no interest in it at all.


Yes, I'm very glad Sega has no games being released or in development for Wii U.

HerzogZwei1989
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#93 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:14 pm

MrSega wrote:
HerzogZwei1989 wrote:I think it's rather interesting how the WiiU specs are such a closely guarded secret.
Nintendo's ninja's must be everywhere, LOL.


Actually no.

The CPU "Expresso" is actually a scaled down version of PS3's 4 CELL.

The GPU is "ATI Radeon 4770". Which makes it weaker than the average PC.

I'm glad SEGA of Japan has shown no interest in it at all.



When was it confirmed that the CPU was based on CELL? Last I heard it was either a very very scaled down Power7 (unlikely) or an 'enhanced' 3-core Broadway.

You might be right about the GPU however.

Comrade Snarky
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Posts: 704

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#94 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 pm

It's not. You're right that it's PowerPC based. The Wii was also PowerPC based, so it would help compatibility to maintain a PowerPC architecture. If they switched to a radically different processor or GPU architecture then it would be similar to the Xbox 360 where Xbox compatibility could only be achieved with individual software profiles for each game.

MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#95 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:11 pm

Comrade Snarky wrote:It's not. You're right that it's PowerPC based. The Wii was also PowerPC based, so it would help compatibility to maintain a PowerPC architecture. If they switched to a radically different processor or GPU architecture then it would be similar to the Xbox 360 where Xbox compatibility could only be achieved with individual software profiles for each game.


Expresso is a low end build of the basic Power 7. Which in turn is based off the same variation of Power 5 which is what 4 CELL is made of.

Expresso and 4 CELL are one in the same. Both are PowerPC based.

Expresso is scaled down to cut costs and improve clockspeed. Both PS3 & Wii U have exact same CPU core Chache memory. Expresso is designed to achieve high performance on average.

As for the R700, like I said before, all GPUs from 2005-2009 have the exact same graphical tech and same engines. The variations are just different.

Comrade Snarky
Vagabond
Posts: 704

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#96 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:29 pm

MrSega wrote:
Comrade Snarky wrote:It's not. You're right that it's PowerPC based. The Wii was also PowerPC based, so it would help compatibility to maintain a PowerPC architecture. If they switched to a radically different processor or GPU architecture then it would be similar to the Xbox 360 where Xbox compatibility could only be achieved with individual software profiles for each game.


Expresso is a low end build of the basic Power 7. Which in turn is based off the same variation of Power 5 which is what 4 CELL is made of.

Expresso and 4 CELL are one in the same. Both are PowerPC based.

Expresso is scaled down to cut costs and improve clockspeed. Both PS3 & Wii U have exact same CPU core Chache memory. Expresso is designed to achieve high performance on average.

As for the R700, like I said before, all GPUs from 2005-2009 have the exact same graphical tech and same engines. The variations are just different.


Cell is radically different from a standard PowerPC architecture. Just because IBM manufactures it does not make it a PowerPC chip.

Also, it's seriously batshit insane to say that all GPUs from 2005-2009 are exactly the same.

My desktop has a card with tech from about 2005. My laptop is from 2008. My desktop attempts to self destruct if I try running Quake 4 on high. My laptop is okay with it.

HerzogZwei1989
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#97 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:54 pm

MrSega wrote:
Expresso is a low end build of the basic Power 7. Which in turn is based off the same variation of Power 5 which is what 4 CELL is made of.

Expresso and 4 CELL are one in the same. Both are PowerPC based.

Expresso is scaled down to cut costs and improve clockspeed. Both PS3 & Wii U have exact same CPU core Chache memory. Expresso is designed to achieve high performance on average.



This is just not true.

As already stated by Comrade Snarky, CELL is not is a standard PowerPC CPU.

"Espresso" and CELL are vastly different.

CELL has Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs)‎ that are not found in "Espresso" "Broadway" "Gekko" "Xenon" or other PowerPC-based CPUs.

MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#98 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:38 pm

HerzogZwei1989 wrote:
MrSega wrote:
Expresso is a low end build of the basic Power 7. Which in turn is based off the same variation of Power 5 which is what 4 CELL is made of.

Expresso and 4 CELL are one in the same. Both are PowerPC based.

Expresso is scaled down to cut costs and improve clockspeed. Both PS3 & Wii U have exact same CPU core Chache memory. Expresso is designed to achieve high performance on average.



This is just not true.

As already stated by Comrade Snarky, CELL is not is a standard PowerPC CPU.

"Espresso" and CELL are vastly different.



CELL has Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs)‎ that are not found in "Espresso" "Broadway" "Gekko" "Xenon" or other PowerPC-based CPUs.


Expresso and 4 CELL. Have the exact same specs and variation
The only difference is the design and Customization.
4 CELL is a 2005 HPC
based off of IBM Power 5 PowerPC. Its design for high end,high budgeted performance Super Computer. Expresso is a modified basic PowerPC

Mircoproccessor from the same family.

As for the 2005-2009 GPUs, the only difference lies in performance &
customization. My 2007 HP PC with a AMD 64 Atholon would have no problem running a 2008-2009 GPU.

Comrade Snarky
Vagabond
Posts: 704

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#99 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:19 pm

MrSega wrote:As for the 2005-2009 GPUs, the only difference lies in performance &
customization. My 2007 HP PC with a AMD 64 Atholon would have no problem running a 2008-2009 GPU.



…that's kind of the entire point of a PC. To be upgradable.

User avatar
Logic
core
Posts: 120

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#100 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:56 pm

The only specifications that are known that Expresso and CELL share is the fact that they both use Power Cores, and even That is not exact(Expresso has 3 Power cores to the PS3's 1).
Similarly Cell's only relation to POWER is the fact that it also utilizes a power core. After that they fly two entirely different roads.
Cell= General Power core+ Streamlined Co-processing elements. Not anywhere in the same league structure or function(not power, power is different) wise to Expresso.

CPU longevity has little to do with the progression of GPU power. PC's would be outright unsustainable as a platform if you needed to go out to spend $200+ on a new CPU every 1-2 years. They need to make sure their parts play nice. Moore's law still exists and happens, however it will not discount youth parts.

If you bought a nehalem processor at launch, chances are it lasted you into the age of Sandy Bridge(about 3 or so years)(at the very least), the same way that if you bought a Sandy Bridge Processor at launch it will most likely last you until Haswell next year(or even past that). You wouldn't say that GPU's haven't significantly changed between 2010-2012 because of that.
Graphics while a common feature of advances are not the only one. We have increases in scale, AI, particle effects, advanced geometry ect....

We have benchmarks, specifications and examples. Which is why I'm entirely baffled by a claim that GPU's were roughly the same over a period of 4 years during which games like:

Battlefield 2142
Crysis
FEAR 2
STALKER
Far Cry 2
ect...
were All released. They all look nothing like each other.

Battlefield 2142 was resource heavy, and took a multiplayer and combat arena scale to a different level.

Crysis won over everything due to the magnitude of employed physics, detail and overall scale.

Fear 2 concentrated efforts on particle effects and surrounding details.

Far Cry 2 was detailed open world.

Stalker was large, lush, detailed(granted buggy as well), and had some of the most perplexing adaptive AI known to games. NPC's would actually work, hunt, kill, defend and move around the place, making them frustrating to find(as they would get bored).

Honestly, I don't know where that statement is coming from, but it's downright false.

Edit: Not leaving out ARMA....Absolutely ridiculous game technical wise in terms of size and physics.
Freedoms:
1,2,3,4. The whole can benefit

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