The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

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HerzogZwei1989
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#101 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:44 pm

I wanted to post something about the Model 2 board that was developed with defense contractor Martin Marietta and the Real3D family developed by Lockheed Martin Corp. This was originally posted to the Usenet group comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video in the mid 90s.

Then I have a question.

I remember reading several days ago from the latest issue of Next Generation
(or maybe it was Wired - they both have the same splashy art design and
super thick covers : about the 3D graphics accelerator cards from
Lockheed Martin Corp. - the Real3D series. The article only mentioned
the two earliest cards in the *scaleable* family line - the low-end
Real3D/100 and high-end Real3D/1000. The R3D/100 (and I guess the 1000
too) is basically composed of a graphics, a geometry, and a texture
processor, and will support OpenGL and 3D-DDI. The cards will "only
operate with PCI...33Mhz interface."
"LOCKHEED ENTERS GRAPHICS BATTLE WITH ITS *$180* REAL3D PROCESSOR:

LMC has announced a PC-based [PCI-ONLY] 3D graphics accelerator which it claims can move more polygons per second than any mainstream system
currently available. The accelerator...is said to be able to move 750,000
textured, shaded, depth-buffered, and MIP-mapped polygons per second, more than Sega's Model 2 arcade board, currently the most powerful board in the arcades. The Real3D technology is primarily a result of Martin Marietta's [1/2 of Lockheed-Martin] longstanding relationship with the defense industry. The firm was involved in NASA research during the '50s and '60s, and in the '70s and '80s went on to work for the US Defense Department on a variety of graphically intensive projects. The technology's basics were then applied to other fields: they helped to make Sega's Model 2 arcade board, with Martin Marietta supplying its texture-mapping chips and TARGET database generation system. LMC has invested more than $200 million in computer graphics research and now owns more than 40 patents in the field, including the 'unique anti-aliasing architecture' used in Real3D."

Then it goes on to list ALOT of specs of each chip component in the card,
which look REALLY good :-) You gotta see the sample screenshots they
showed (very, very good)! Anyway, LMC has annual sales of ~$23 billion
and employs more than 170,000 people (large company, to say the least).


https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en& ... 6ya5hHrg8J

BTW that was from Next Generation issue 8, August 1995.
http://i47.tinypic.com/fy04jt.jpg

My question:

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what was meant by
"TARGET database generation system" ?
Last edited by HerzogZwei1989 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stu
Feet of Fury
Posts: 578

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#102 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:51 pm

Comrade Snarky wrote:
Cell is radically different from a standard PowerPC architecture. Just because IBM manufactures it does not make it a PowerPC chip.

Also, it's seriously batshit insane to say that all GPUs from 2005-2009 are exactly the same.

My desktop has a card with tech from about 2005. My laptop is from 2008. My desktop attempts to self destruct if I try running Quake 4 on high. My laptop is okay with it.


I think "seriously batshit insane" pretty much describes most of MrSega's posts tbh :lol:

MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#103 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:52 pm

Comrade Snarky wrote:
MrSega wrote:
HerzogZwei1989 wrote:I think it's rather interesting how the WiiU specs are such a closely guarded secret.
Nintendo's ninja's must be everywhere, LOL.


I'm glad SEGA of Japan has shown no interest in it at all.


Yes, I'm very glad Sega has no games being released or in development for Wii U.


Rumors over a month old. The blog is a gossip Nintendo blog. So the credibility there went out the window.

Haven't heard anything at TGS regarding SEGA supporting Wii U at all.

Plus I recall SEGA officially stating that they were no longer publishing and developing 3rd party physical content except Sonic,Aliens and Total War. I'm gonna call it fan speculation and likely false.

stu
Feet of Fury
Posts: 578

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#104 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 pm

MrSega wrote:
Rumors over a month old. The blog is a gossip Nintendo blog. So the credibility there went out the window.

Haven't heard anything at TGS regarding SEGA supporting Wii U at all.

Plus I recall SEGA officially stating that they were no longer publishing and developing 3rd party physical content except Sonic,Aliens and Total War. I'm gonna call it fan speculation and likely false.


Right because unless it comes from MrSega himself then it has to be false right? :roll:

MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#105 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:03 am

HerzogZwei1989 wrote:I wanted to post something about the Model 2 board that was developed with defense contractor Martin Marietta and the Real3D family developed by Lockheed Martin Corp. This was originally posted to the Usenet group comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video in the mid 90s.

Then I have a question.

I remember reading several days ago from the latest issue of Next Generation
(or maybe it was Wired - they both have the same splashy art design and
super thick covers : about the 3D graphics accelerator cards from
Lockheed Martin Corp. - the Real3D series. The article only mentioned
the two earliest cards in the *scaleable* family line - the low-end
Real3D/100 and high-end Real3D/1000. The R3D/100 (and I guess the 1000
too) is basically composed of a graphics, a geometry, and a texture
processor, and will support OpenGL and 3D-DDI. The cards will "only
operate with PCI...33Mhz interface."
"LOCKHEED ENTERS GRAPHICS BATTLE WITH ITS *$180* REAL3D PROCESSOR:

LMC has announced a PC-based [PCI-ONLY] 3D graphics accelerator which it claims can move more polygons per second than any mainstream system
currently available. The accelerator...is said to be able to move 750,000
textured, shaded, depth-buffered, and MIP-mapped polygons per second, more than Sega's Model 2 arcade board, currently the most powerful board in the arcades. The Real3D technology is primarily a result of Martin Marietta's [1/2 of Lockheed-Martin] longstanding relationship with the defense industry. The firm was involved in NASA research during the '50s and '60s, and in the '70s and '80s went on to work for the US Defense Department on a variety of graphically intensive projects. The technology's basics were then applied to other fields: they helped to make Sega's Model 2 arcade board, with Martin Marietta supplying its texture-mapping chips and TARGET database generation system. LMC has invested more than $200 million in computer graphics research and now owns more than 40 patents in the field, including the 'unique anti-aliasing architecture' used in Real3D."

Then it goes on to list ALOT of specs of each chip component in the card,
which look REALLY good :-) You gotta see the sample screenshots they
showed (very, very good)! Anyway, LMC has annual sales of ~$23 billion
and employs more than 170,000 people (large company, to say the least).


https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en& ... 6ya5hHrg8J





BTW that was from Next Generation issue 8, August 1995.
http://i47.tinypic.com/fy04jt.jpg

My question:

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what was meant by
"TARGET database generation system" ?


The Amusement Arcade market at the time.

HerzogZwei1989
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#106 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:05 am

Cripes.

I'd like a real, technical answer...Please.


Logic?

stu
Feet of Fury
Posts: 578

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#107 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:15 am

HerzogZwei1989 wrote:Cripes.

I'd like a real, technical answer...Please.


Logic?



Most 3D games utilize a database to store all the data for the 3D models in the game or simulation. I'm not 100% sure but I am guessing that LMC's proprietary database system was known as TARGET and that they licensed it to Sega when they developed the Model 2 IG board. I tried doing some google searches but nothing comes up. Sorry its probably not as technical as you would like. :)

HerzogZwei1989
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#108 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:17 am

stu wrote:

Most 3D games utilize a database to store all the data for the 3D models in the game or simulation. I'm not 100% sure but I am guessing that LMC's proprietary database system was known as TARGET and that they licensed it to Sega when they developed the Model 2 and 3 IG boards. I tried doing some google searches but nothing comes up.



That makes a great deal of sense, thanks very much for your reply.

edit: it was technical enough, compared to the previous response. :lol:
Last edited by HerzogZwei1989 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Comrade Snarky
Vagabond
Posts: 714

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#109 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:18 am

MrSega wrote:Rumors over a month old. The blog is a gossip Nintendo blog. So the credibility there went out the window.

Haven't heard anything at TGS regarding SEGA supporting Wii U at all.

Plus I recall SEGA officially stating that they were no longer publishing and developing 3rd party physical content except Sonic,Aliens and Total War. I'm gonna call it fan speculation and likely false.


It's not a rumor that Aliens: Colonial Marines and that Sonic racing game are coming out on Wii U. Nintendo themselves announced this. This forum isn't rumors and speculation. Remember, that got closed down?

MrSega

Re: The unreleased SEGA 'Saturn 2' and The Dreamcast Story

Post#110 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:36 am

Comrade Snarky wrote:
MrSega wrote:Rumors over a month old. The blog is a gossip Nintendo blog. So the credibility there went out the window.

Haven't heard anything at TGS regarding SEGA supporting Wii U at all.

Plus I recall SEGA officially stating that they were no longer publishing and developing 3rd party physical content except Sonic,Aliens and Total War. I'm gonna call it fan speculation and likely false.


It's not a rumor that Aliens: Colonial Marines and that Sonic racing game are coming out on Wii U. Nintendo themselves announced this. This forum isn't rumors and speculation. Remember, that got closed down?



Colonial Marines on PS3/360 and PC have a release date. The Wii U port does not.

Transformed on the Wii U is being underpromoted by SEGA. The only press its gotten is that its a launch title and only Sumo Digital seems to be protoming that port.

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