Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

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dubcity
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#11 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:55 am

fafadou wrote:
megavolt85 wrote:2) Dreamcast is still alive, company SEGA died


Thanks to you, all developers, and the whole community for keeping dreamcast alive.

I'm just learning that the first xbox was less selling than dreamcast during its first two years...


They killed original Xbox early because of so many motherboard and component revisions. Component prices are so high at beginning of console cycle and should go lower the longer in production. Trying to fight piracy so much they made lots of changes. The contracts for components were short term and never saw dip in price. After four years they stopped the console and jumped to 360. Because of the experience the 360 is most locked down console ever no one has soft modded it yet. It can only be hard modded. Also the result of this was red ring of death that cost them 1 billion to fix.

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Londinium
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#12 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:00 pm

Cass wrote:2. Piracy killed the Dreamcast.


The Dreamcast was killed before it even started, you can trace it's failure all the way to the Genesis/Mega Drive era. Sega's awful management with the Saturn and 32X doomed to company to be untrustworthy in the public eye, despite the Saturn having features superior to the PS1. Refusal to work with Sony before they made the PS1 and Sega of Japan's stubbornness, among many other things, doomed the Dreamcast before it was conceived. Issues like piracy only amplified the situation, and served to expedite Sega's fall from grace.
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Anthony817
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#13 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:31 pm

fafadou wrote:
megavolt85 wrote:2) Dreamcast is still alive, company SEGA died


Thanks to you, all developers, and the whole community for keeping dreamcast alive.

I'm just learning that the first xbox was less selling than dreamcast during its first two years...


So did the Wii U. I remember it was a big deal when the console surpassed 10 million units sold after I think 4 years. I thought to myself, "wow after all this time it only sold that much?"... Dreamcast sold way more units in a much shorter time than the Wii U which is really crazy to think about, yet Nintendo kept it on life support until much longer. Imagine if Sega had just kept the installed user base supported for at least 2 more years. So many more great games could have come out.

But in the end the Wii U ultimately sold just over 13 million units world wide, which is not much more than the Dreamcast which was on the market for half as long or less.
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Caspian
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#14 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:04 am

2) Piracy alone could not have killed the system by itself. It is obvious (to me) however that since SEGA was fighting with its back against the wall it needed every last scrap to stay afloat. In that respect piracy was a huge blow.

3) I think I have read that the Voodoo option would actually lead to worse performance.

4) After all these years I still don't get the fuzz about the controller. In most cases it is actually a very good controller. The only times I had some problems were with some fighting games. Other than that I would say it's a great controller.

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fafadou
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#15 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:20 am

2) the VA2 version don't read piracy cdr disc, the piracy was to its end. But the value of VA1 should rise very quickly ^^

Green Ranger
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#16 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:42 pm

I've always loved the Dreamcast controller, never understood why it's hated by some.

Here are some myths I'd like to see debunked-
1) CD-Rs WILL ruin the Dreamcast laser.
As far as I know, as long as the disc image is properly constructed (with an appropriate dummy file, file sorting, etc) the Dreamcast laser takes less work to read the CD-R and thus will not wear out the laser any faster than a GD-rom disc would.

2) Dreamcasts made after a certain date won't play backups.
Still have no idea on this one since some have said it's not true, while others have said it is true.

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Ian Micheal
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#17 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:51 pm

Green Ranger wrote:I've always loved the Dreamcast controller, never understood why it's hated by some.

Here are some myths I'd like to see debunked-
1) CD-Rs WILL ruin the Dreamcast laser.
As far as I know, as long as the disc image is properly constructed (with an appropriate dummy file, file sorting, etc) the Dreamcast laser takes less work to read the CD-R and thus will not wear out the laser any faster than a GD-rom disc would.

This true the Dreamcast was made to play mil cds cdr wil not wear anything if proper burned image.. Every time you use a dreamcast there is wear on the gdrom drive dont matter what format..

Cdr is only slow speed block and slower then a gdrom

2) Dreamcasts made after a certain date won't play backups.
Still have no idea on this one since some have said it's not true, while others have said it is true.

It's true sega worked hard to try get software houses confidence but it was to late no one wants to release there AAA title on cracked console that any idiot can burn with a cdr.. So they knew it was a big deal as they spent RnD to try fix it.. more about software houses they did not need much of push to move on but that was the final blow..


People downplay this but sega them self went to the trouble of new motherboard rev to try fix this you know that's not cheap at all...


Sega only earned money off the licence fee of each copy every pirate game lost them money they lost on any sales of the console

Myth of pirate games dont hurt that some keep saying is just not correct for sega that could not absorb the losses like other console makers..

See how we treat people doing this to indie dev's for example You dont think sega felt the same way but had millions into each game with team of up to 30 people and marketing just to see sonic adventure for download..

Seems very hypocritical to me you can have morals when it comes to indie dev games!!!.. And think sega was so big they where more like indie console maker they could not take any software losses that's the only thing they made any money on..Every one back then playing burned backup games and not buying them is responsible for the death of sega and the dreamcast..

Stick to sega there the man it's ok to not buy there games .. I know people that never ever own a real dreamcast game only bought it because of burned cdrs and this was when it's still alive..


Every dreamcast sold lost them money so more consoles sold then games pressed.. pretty easy to see this

NO that would not help sega they lost money on each console sold

Comparing other consoles with piracy is just not the same level they where on the edge this was it put all there money and effort in the gdrom format because they thought it would not be break-able for a long time..

GDROM format was promised to the game dev's and software houses to not be crack-able that was the whole point they went with it and not some other format.. read the docs they go on about it.. in the SDK Safe media


Only 1.27 million
It is the bestselling Dreamcast game; by August 4, 2006, it had sold 2.5 million copies, including 440,000 in Japan and 1.27 million in the US.
Of sonic adventures ever sold with installed user base of over 8 million.. do the math..

Killer app like that needs to sell more like 4million

Example last ninja on the c64 sold more then it with over 5 million copys..

If you have a user base of 8 million and only 1 million buy any games your not going to keep going very long

Example

For each Saturn sold, we lost about 10,000 yen ($100). That’s how the hardware business works. But the goal was to recoup the losses from software royalties. If there are lots of third parties, lots of games sold, and we get 2,000 yen for each, it’s possible. However, if software sales are weak, and for each console sold, we’re ultimately losing 5,000 – 6,000 yen, what’s going to happen from the business perspective? We’re going to stop selling consoles. This later became a huge problem.

Any piracy for sega meant total loss

You cant compare piracy on other console to Sega which could not recover the money any other way but selling license fee

kremiso
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#18 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:02 pm

Cass wrote:2. Piracy killed the Dreamcast.


i can say i have bought a lot of original software for the Dreamcast back in the day, surely much more than PS1!
at least here in Italy, the prices were ok, absolutely honest
i remember some new games launched for less than (now) 25 euro
never seen a new pal release beyond 40/45 euro here

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Ian Micheal
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#19 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:12 pm

kremiso wrote:
Cass wrote:2. Piracy killed the Dreamcast.


i can say i have bought a lot of original software for the Dreamcast back in the day, surely much more than PS1!
at least here in Italy, the prices were ok, absolutely honest
i remember some new games launched for less than (now) 25 euro
never seen a new pal release beyond 40/45 euro here



You might of but many never did sales per console per game are worst then the saturn.. I know some people on this forum that never owned a real dreamcast game ever till not long ago..

Main attraction in 2002/ was no mod chip burn games.. Which has made the life after retail strong

Please dont compare nintendo or sony.. Main thing why nintendo made the n64 cart based was they did not want Piracy of there games like cd based media.. Also why they went with strange format for the Gamecube..

Main thing is software house is not going to spend millions on platform that has been broken and can be defeated and the normal user can burn a copy of there game..

But what about the ps1 not the same you ether had to use a modchip illegal in a lot of countries cd burner was over $500 at time media was costly
Sony had tv's dvd players whole host of movies and music to subsidize there losses on the console.. Which they did till number and sheer volume meant they could handle the bad user..

Sales to console sale ratio vs games sold are poor Main fact is they only money they got was per licence fee that's how sega worked they had no other thing keeping them a float pretty clear they said game sales are weak we will no longer sell consoles..

Not like other company.. They factored in 100% sales of games licence to keep them a float.. and borrow on that


Haha With only 2 million sonic adventure sold you telling me that you have every herd of dreamcast owner that did not have the game there was never 8 million copies but i have never seen any one say they did not have it .. Same with lot of the other games..


case in point really

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Ian Micheal
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Re: Top 5 Dreamcast Urban Myths

Post#20 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:54 pm

What your trying to say is if some one modchips there ps1 or ps2 or what ever they still buy games .. going to laugh at that because that's why you modchip or break a system to play games for free,, Dreamcast you did not have to do any of that..


IS it the only factor no but it's a major one

I remember 2000 my self and would save for a game then there was 4 to 5 games online to download every day i had a cd burner And i tried it never bought a new dreamcast game again was it wrong yes but Honest enff to admit it.. I download and try them think i buy the real one if i like it..

From there i moved to coding for it since i could just run unsigned code on it.. Sold all my real games like many did and just used the copys i had ..

Was called a ghetto cast for a long time because poor people all you needed was a stack of cdr's and burner ..


The Dreamcast game system has been viewed as one of the most secure digital entertainment systems on the market, with internal copy protection and a CD that holds nearly twice as much data as an ordinary disc.

But late last week, a group calling itself "Utopia" released a set of copied games online--along with a software program that would trick the Dreamcast hardware into playing the games without any modifications to the hardware itself.

"Finally, though no one really expected it, we made your dreams come true: Dreamcast BootCD V1.1--boot copies and imports on a NON-chipped (!) standard consumer model," the group wrote in an information file distributed with the software.

Since that time, several games per day have been released into the wild, traded on underground networks such as Internet Relay Chat (IRC). Several Web sites are tracking the quickly growing scene

The release is bad new for sega


Heh even on 56k modem they where easy to downloads scene releases where in 5 mb chunks so you could just down load a bit here a bit there was all the same archive.. it as easy let me tell you ...

Only system when you buy a job lot you get hand written bundles of games.. factor in the local market i could buy them burned for $5 each all day long in 2000




Really read direct from Sega

Doug Lowenstein, president of the Interactive Digital Software Association, said Sega's attack on Internet copycats was an example of a new willingness to hit back at a pirate trade that cost the industry more than $3.2 billion in 1998, the latest year for which figures are available.

"Piracy is one of the biggest business threats our industry faces, and Internet piracy is especially virulent," he said.

Since noticing the first cracks in Dreamcast's armor, Sega has stepped up work to close software loopholes, Bellfield said, adding that CD space limitations meant that only a handful of the company's Dreamcast offerings were capable of being illegally copied.

"There are only certain games which they've been able to pirate here. They haven't been able to pirate all of our content," Bellfield said. "Looking ahead, both technical and legal measures will minimize the risk ... and Sega will be extremely aggressive against people who try any kind of piracy."[/size]
We all know how this turned out with all games being cracked..

Dont fool your self in to thinking how big it was for sega for the GDrom and copyprotection to be cracked it was a kick in guts

Sega spent million and million on RnD on the format and system so it could not be copied


"Sega supports a creative community of talented artists. Pirates are parasites that hurt this community and will not be tolerated by Sega," said Peter Moore, Sega of America Inc.'s president and chief operating officer.


Sega Crushes Dreamcast Pirates
Sega gets aggressive after its famously secure Dreamcast games start showing up as bootleg copies on the Web. The company teams up with major auction site to shut down sites selling the pirated versions.
SAN FRANCISCO -- Sega announced Thursday it had crushed more than 60 illegal websites and 125 auction sites flogging pirated versions of its Dreamcast games, until recently viewed as one of the most secure digital entertainment systems on the market.

"Sega supports a creative community of talented artists. Pirates are parasites that hurt this community and will not be tolerated by Sega," said Peter Moore, Sega of America Inc.'s president and chief operating officer.

"This is just the first step in an even bigger action the company will undertake to stop this problem. We will continue to take aggressive steps to protect our business, consumers, and the creative talent we have at Sega."

In attacking Dreamcast, the pirates were taking on what many industry analysts regarded as a Fort Knox of online intellectual properties -- equipped with far more complex protections than the relatively simple music, film, and video files targeted by controversial services like Napster and Scour.

Sega's Dreamcast system features both internal copy protection and a proprietary "GD-ROM" compact disc capable of storing almost twice as much data as an ordinary disc.


But earlier this month a shadowy group of computer hackers dubbed "Utopia" announced it had managed not only to copy Dreamcast games on to normal CDs, but also had developed "boot disc" software which would trick Sega's own hardware into playing the pirated versions.

Since then, several dozen Dreamcast titles have been released on the Internet and traded on underground networks such as Internet Relay Chat (IRC).

Sega said Thursday it was working closely with Yahoo, Lycos, Excite, eBay, and Amazon to shut down auctions of people attempting to sell illegal games and pirated "boot" disks.

Sega of America Inc. is a division of Sega Enterprises Ltd. of Japan.

Charles Bellfield, Sega's director of communications, said the company's drive against the Internet trade of pirated versions of Dreamcast marked one of the first times that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 had been used to go after the web-hosting companies and ISPs used by pirate traders.

"We've done the first level, which is cease-and-desist orders to auction companies and also to web-hosting companies. If they do not comply then legal prosecutions will start," Bellfield said.

"This is the first time this act has been used not just to stop piracy, but also physical sales over the Internet," Bellfield said. "It is the first time that web-hosting companies and Web auction sites are being held accountable for the contents of what is being sold."

Doug Lowenstein, president of the Interactive Digital Software Association, said Sega's attack on Internet copycats was an example of a new willingness to hit back at a pirate trade that cost the industry more than $3.2 billion in 1998, the latest year for which figures are available.

"Piracy is one of the biggest business threats our industry faces, and Internet piracy is especially virulent," he said.

Since noticing the first cracks in Dreamcast's armor, Sega has stepped up work to close software loopholes, Bellfield said, adding that CD space limitations meant that only a handful of the company's Dreamcast offerings were capable of being illegally copied.

"There are only certain games which they've been able to pirate here. They haven't been able to pirate all of our content," Bellfield said. "Looking ahead, both technical and legal measures will minimize the risk ... and Sega will be extremely aggressive against people who try any kind of piracy."






The console sold 8.20 million units lifetime. Breaking it down by region, it sold 3.90 million units in North America, 1.91 million units in Europe and 2.25 million units in Japan. Rest of the world accounted for just 0.14 million units.


This is for game sales

1st. Sonic Adventure - 2.42 Million
2nd. Crazy Taxi - 1.81 Million
3rd. NFL 2K - 1.20 Million
4th. Shenmue - 1.18 Million
6th. NFL 2K1 - 1.09 Million
7th. Seaman - 0.52 Million
8th. Sega Rally Championship 2 - 0.41 million
9th. Virtua Fighter 3tb - 0.37 million
10th. J-League Pro Soccer Club - 0.36 Million

Statement at the time Considering that game development, marketing, and overhead budgets often come to over $1 million per title, the US Dreamcast market is just too risky, even for Sega at this point.

Going to spend 1 million per title you sure cant let people get it for free

Reminds me of such a double standard piracy dont hurt a game console
Where the only how to earn money on said console is to sell the games On that console...

other console makers had much bigger user bases when you got a small user base you cant cope with piracy

Case in point is the Dreamcast indie game market.. If it dont hurt to copy games then why dont we just dump all our copies and upload them ..

Sega was the indie of the console market.. With the lowest budget and money.. there arcade business was losing money so both sides where losing money only hope was per licence fee's investor looked at 8 million user base and expect 4 to 5 million sales on a good game or game over..

Look at the genesis games sales where exact hardly any piracy with cart tech few dodgy rom copiers and bootlegs but people bought games then they did not think how can copy this shit and get it for free..

Check megadrive sales it reflects that

Ask Roel if he likes his games being posted after all that time and effort.. but it's ok and not hurtful back then to post or ripp off people that spent 1 million or more to bring the game to market.. each burned copy wasted sega up to $10 a game

I know i did not think about it back in 2000 and it was wrong then really saying piracy did have a factor in sega pulling the pin is not very well thought out..

Why do you think they made Rev dreamcast that was going to fix the problem retooling for all that cost a fortune.. It was big enff that they spent lots of money trying to fix it.. And restore faith for the software houses they IP would not be cracked and stolen the say it was out..

Where talking 8 million cracked consoles here not like a ps1 with modchips or ps2 with modchips but every bloody machine with out touching it..

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