Bleemcasting: An Interview With Bleemcast! Developer Randy Linden

[SMiTH]

First off, I must thank you for responding.
I have wanted to hear your input for quite some time now.

This isn't how the Dreamcast markets were even aligned, and Sega themselves only had 3 regions for the Dreamcast. Dreamcast had 3 main regions:

REGION 0 (J): Japan, Taiwan, Philippines
REGION 1 (U): USA, Canada
REGION 2 (E): Europe

But... even if this were how the Dreamcasts were aligned, what is the point of assigning different colors to different region systems or locking the builds to regions? No indie software for the Dreamcast has ever had different builds for different region Dreamcasts, because why would they?

So, the region that I am referring to is not that of the dreamcast.. but, the actual playstation games and how the emulator handled each region.
It has already been proven that the beta bleem acts differently with these 2 PAL regions based on color beta used.
REGION 4 -- Australia, New Zealand, Latin America (including Mexico)
REGION 5 -- Eastern Europe, Russia, India, Africa.

While I haven't done my own analysis of the bleemcast code that locks the software to the specific machines, it makes no sense that it would be used as test bait. Because the protection on the betas fundamentally has to be different than the protection on the discs, because they're protecting two completely different things.

Then why encrypt each beta differently, when each one of the bleem beta colors were the same build? -minus region?
Protecting IP like this seems way over the top, the employees signed nda's already.
Also the initial leak was very early, before the actual 2003 time stamp shown in the cracked beta versions found everywhere.
This was an early build that is super buggy, has very low compatibility, and i doubt even sony would give a damn if it was leaked.
If a better build was leaked it might cause much more concern.
But knowing how sony goes after anything and everything who knows?

The actual myth makes far more sense than your theory: They made the software check for a console modification, and if the modification wasn't present, it refused to run; and only authorized people were given consoles with that modification. And to add a digital trail, the modifications were slightly different so if someone was losing or sharing their discs they'd know who was being loose with the software. So of course when all of the protections were stripped off the builds were the same. They were always supposed to be. Why would they have 1 person test different builds? One person can't test everything alone. You need a lot of people testing one single consistent build.

According to the .nfo file in the leaked beta the tester says:

Code: Select all

[04:30] <Betatester> Well, each one was encoded to only work on that specific DC
[04:30] <Betatester> However, if you mean the burning process, no, it was the same for them all.
[05:16] <Me> i mean different color dc's got different builds
[05:24] <Betatester> Well, I'm really not sure if they were different builds or not.  I'm thinking that he might have done some kind of encoding on them, AFTER he did the builds, to make it work on the individual DC's.  But, I don't know that for sure.  He might have had the encoding done during the build itself, in which case they would be different builds for each color

It has never really been stated what the different colors were about and the "locked dc bios to disk color" is still hearsay.
It was also stated in the original dcemulation thread that testers were sent the betas.
So obviously the internal bleem testers were the ones with colored dreamcasts with alleged bios modifications.
Did they send modified dc consoles out to the other testers lol?

I just couldn't fathom Rand taking the risk of putting his code out there on purpose. Especially when after bleem! had gone under and they no longer had a financial interest in its sales, Rod Maher and Rand Linden posted on DCEmulation expressing regret that the beta making the rounds was extremely early and misrepresented the work they put into the emulator afterwards and that they were very disappointed in the person who leaked the builds because the company was so small and tight knit

Well, it still doesn't mean an intentional leak did not happen..

I think people just like to come up with theories and gossip about bleem! because it's just one of those things that has had an extreme following. People saw bleem! as rebels in defense of a dying Sega. Rand even had a cult of personality on DCEmulation known as the Randites.

Of course bleem! has so much folklore, gossip, conspiracies, hearsay, myths, etc. that goes back close to 20 years now.

bleemcast! was written entirely in SH4 assembly language. With that level of talent, he would practically be a God in the Dreamcast indie programming community. Of course he'd never say that... he's religious (or was, don't know if he still is) and doesn't believe in saying the Lord's name (using "G-d" instead).

Rand is a programming legend.

I probably missed a few things but I am sure you get the point.

[deluxux]

Very cool Rand still gives a damn about the DC. If he sold an updated Bleem today I would buy it.

[Ian Micheal]

If any one knows the true it's DARC

[|darc|]

So, the region that I am referring to is not that of the dreamcast.. but, the actual playstation games and how the emulator handled each region.
It has already been proven that the beta bleem acts differently with these 2 PAL regions based on color beta used.
REGION 4 -- Australia, New Zealand, Latin America (including Mexico)
REGION 5 -- Eastern Europe, Russia, India, Africa.

Do you have a link to this? I've never seen or heard of this before. Not saying it isn't true, but from everything I've heard all 5 builds are the exact same.

Then why encrypt each beta differently, when each one of the bleem beta colors were the same build? -minus region?
Protecting IP like this seems way over the top, the employees signed nda's already.

Knowing Rand, I wouldn't say anything anti-piracy is "too over the top" for him. Prior to bleem!, he had former background in anti-piracy.
Also... don't you think purposely leaking a beta to test the community's ability to crack it is even more "over the top"?

Especially consider Rand called the protection in the beta "trivial" and said it had nothing to do with the media (see here).

We also know that he ended up creating some sort of even stricter copy protection for his testers' CD-Rs later, so if you think this was over the top, he went harder (see here).

Also the initial leak was very early, before the actual 2003 time stamp shown in the cracked beta versions found everywhere.
This was an early build that is super buggy, has very low compatibility, and i doubt even sony would give a damn if it was leaked.
If a better build was leaked it might cause much more concern.
But knowing how sony goes after anything and everything who knows?

Doesn't matter if Sony cared, I think Rand cared regardless, and didn't want it out there. Like I said, he was extremely protective. Some might say irrationally so, but like I said, he had a background in anti-piracy.

Also, you downplay how interesting the beta version is, here we are 18 years later and the software is old enough to vote and people are still developing frontends for it and releasing games with it

According to the .nfo file in the leaked beta the tester says:

Code: Select all

[04:30] <Betatester> Well, each one was encoded to only work on that specific DC
[04:30] <Betatester> However, if you mean the burning process, no, it was the same for them all.
[05:16] <Me> i mean different color dc's got different builds
[05:24] <Betatester> Well, I'm really not sure if they were different builds or not.  I'm thinking that he might have done some kind of encoding on them, AFTER he did the builds, to make it work on the individual DC's.  But, I don't know that for sure.  He might have had the encoding done during the build itself, in which case they would be different builds for each color

It has never really been stated what the different colors were about and the "locked dc bios to disk color" is still hearsay.
It was also stated in the original dcemulation thread that testers were sent the betas.
So obviously the internal bleem testers were the ones with colored dreamcasts with alleged bios modifications.
Did they send modified dc consoles out to the other testers lol?

This is the second time I've seen you say "lol" when suggesting that perhaps they gave testers modified Dreamcasts. Why is this farfetched? I believe that's exactly what they did and I don't know why that would be weird. We know already bleem bought a bunch of hardware to do testing on, including seeking out which consoles ran MIL-CDs and which didn't. Sega didn't provide that information to them. They had to spend a lot of money testing on their own (see here). Once Sega turned their backs to bleem they were completely on their own. If you check the ISO16.raw file in the bleemcast release for example it's a directly ripped IP.BIN from deeps - Heartbreak Diary MIL-CD.

As I said before, it would be trivial to modify a Dreamcast like this by putting something in the Dreamcast flash ROM and then have the software check for it. It could be done without even opening the Dreamcast. Or, do a 1 wire mod to put it in the read-only part of flash ROM and make it even harder to duplicate.

Besides, what you haven't answered for me is, if the uncracked beta builds weren't locked to specific Dreamcasts, what were they locked to? What was the copy protection that was broken? Why can't I follow the same instructions given to testers to burn a copy and run it on my Dreamcast? What is the crack cracking?

I just couldn't fathom Rand taking the risk of putting his code out there on purpose. Especially when after bleem! had gone under and they no longer had a financial interest in its sales, Rod Maher and Rand Linden posted on DCEmulation expressing regret that the beta making the rounds was extremely early and misrepresented the work they put into the emulator afterwards and that they were very disappointed in the person who leaked the builds because the company was so small and tight knit

Well, it still doesn't mean an intentional leak did not happen...

Yes, it doesn't, but then you'd also have to explain that Rand and Rod are big enough psychopaths to go out of their way to make a thread of lies years after the whole situation was made irrelevant by the folding of the company.

[SMiTH]

Do you have a link to this? I've never seen or heard of this before. Not saying it isn't true, but from everything I've heard all 5 builds are the exact same.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12161&start=10

Here's a russian list of testing the beta https://web.archive.org/web/20070518144 ... y_list.txt

All the games marked australian version is my tests same on other lists I tryed with real games i owned not backups lol at the time but a lot of australian pal releases dont work at all on the blue beta.. yet same game from another region does that's allways got me thinking why..

Medevil 1 and 2 being one such thing the pal real ps1 games i owned they dont work.. but ntsc does work.. any ways.. got be something there why thats the case

Rand would say that i can tell you there was a finshed beta later build then the one we have people still have it i not say more then that public as it's upto them.. it still need cracking

Colours were regions pal ntsc notice the blue beta sometimes does not load a region pal game but will load the ntsc etc etc.. filesize is why the hacker said they was the same.. changing config settings then recompiling it would not change the files size.. I can do that with radquake make one 10fps one 72fps with 3 code line changes both are 702kb when compiled

don't you think purposely leaking a beta to test the community's ability to crack it is even more "over the top"?

Not at all.
Collectively more can be accomplished.
Especially since there would be such a diverse skill set aqcuired with a large audience interested in cracking the files.
To top it off, it would cost bleem! nothing.
They then could modify their work further to anti any methods that were found to be defeated.

Doesn't matter if Sony cared, I think Rand cared regardless, and didn't want it out there. Like I said, he was extremely protective. Some might say irrationally so, but like I said, he had a background in anti-piracy.

Well the position to hold publicly might be just that.
Makes sense.
Afterall why would anyone admit to intentionally leaking data?

Also, you downplay how interesting the beta version is, here we are 18 years later and the software is old enough to vote and people are still developing frontends for it and releasing games with it

Not trying to boast here but..
Considering I am into bleem!cast way more than your average dreamcast fan. In no way do I downplay how interesting the beta is. In fact I released a mere 250+ bleem!cast selfboots back in the day. Recently I created a new method to use the bleemcast boot script in 64 bit OS. And I am currently going through 100s of psx isos to find more compatible games.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12193

Also I am interested in any developments that happen with bleemcast.
Bleemshell is truly awesome.

This is the second time I've seen you say "lol" when suggesting that perhaps they gave testers modified Dreamcasts. Why is this farfetched? I believe that's exactly what they did and I don't know why that would be weird. We know already bleem bought a bunch of hardware to do testing on, including seeking out which consoles ran MIL-CDs and which didn't. Sega didn't provide that information to them. They had to spend a lot of money testing on their own (see here). Once Sega turned their backs to bleem they were completely on their own. If you check the ISO16.raw file in the bleemcast release for example it's a directly ripped IP.BIN from deeps - Heartbreak Diary MIL-CD.

I am familiar with the Heartbreak Diary MIL-CD, and I have viewed the ripped IP.BIN also.

Yes, it seems very far fetched.
I am just going by my experience working contracts at Apple, and Microsoft.
Also working at 2 tech startup companies, 1 that tried to create an IBM websphere clone.
I have never seen any company take that level of protection with IP.
True I have always been a low level tier 1 type.
But, I signed the same nda's as the higher level folks.
Also had access to the same networks.

As I said before, it would be trivial to modify a Dreamcast like this by putting something in the Dreamcast flash ROM and then have the software check for it. It could be done without even opening the Dreamcast. Or, do a 1 wire mod to put it in the read-only part of flash ROM and make it even harder to duplicate.

But, why?
Why go through all of this to not only obfuscate your employees, but also the public as well.
I mean this is an emulator ffs.

Besides, what you haven't answered for me is, if the uncracked beta builds weren't locked to specific Dreamcasts, what were they locked to? What was the copy protection that was broken? Why can't I follow the same instructions given to testers to burn a copy and run it on my Dreamcast? What is the crack cracking?

Do we even know that they were locked to specific dreamcasts?
Is this even confirmed?
And as far as the cracking its way over my head.
People such as patriot, megavolt (dreamshell) and the original ppl who cracked the beta would need to chime in.

Yes, it doesn't, but then you'd also have to explain that Rand and Rod are big enough psychopaths to go out of their way to make a thread of lies years after the whole situation was made irrelevant by the folding of the company.

I don't think an intentional leak and then a public post stating otherwise would make some1 a psychopath. It would be a successful leak, the public would always think otherwise. Afterall why would anyone admit to intentionally leaking data?

[|darc|]

Do you have a link to this? I've never seen or heard of this before. Not saying it isn't true, but from everything I've heard all 5 builds are the exact same.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12161&start=10

Here's a russian list of testing the beta https://web.archive.org/web/20070518144 ... y_list.txt

All the games marked australian version is my tests same on other lists I tryed with real games i owned not backups lol at the time but a lot of australian pal releases dont work at all on the blue beta.. yet same game from another region does that's allways got me thinking why..

Medevil 1 and 2 being one such thing the pal real ps1 games i owned they dont work.. but ntsc does work.. any ways.. got be something there why thats the case

Rand would say that i can tell you there was a finshed beta later build then the one we have people still have it i not say more then that public as it's upto them.. it still need cracking

Colours were regions pal ntsc notice the blue beta sometimes does not load a region pal game but will load the ntsc etc etc.. filesize is why the hacker said they was the same.. changing config settings then recompiling it would not change the files size.. I can do that with radquake make one 10fps one 72fps with 3 code line changes both are 702kb when compiled

Sorry but those posts don't mean anything to me, I think Ian is just posting speculation as fact. As far as I am aware, the Yellow, Green, Orange, and Purple builds have never even been released as cracked versions.

@Ian Michael, can you back up this claim? Do you have a cracked version of Yellow, Green, Orange, or Purple?

When the cracker who originally released it says they're identical I believe he means they're all literally exactly identical, just locked to different Dreamcasts. Otherwise what you're suggesting is that a second person at some point came in and cracked Yellow, Green, Orange, and Purple and released them and we know they're different?

Also, Ian says they're just different config settings, but the binaries are encrypted differently

Additionally, doing this doesn't even make sense. The emulator can load different configurations based on checking the disc's title ID. They wouldn't develop an entire PlayStation emulator in assembly and then be unable to do simple detection of the region, necessitating sending out multiple different builds. Why on Earth would they do that?

don't you think purposely leaking a beta to test the community's ability to crack it is even more "over the top"?

Not at all.
Collectively more can be accomplished.
Especially since there would be such a diverse skill set aqcuired with a large audience interested in cracking the files.
To top it off, it would cost bleem! nothing.
They then could modify their work further to anti any methods that were found to be defeated.

Ok, but that's still more farfetched than linking builds to specific Dreamcast models though

Doesn't matter if Sony cared, I think Rand cared regardless, and didn't want it out there. Like I said, he was extremely protective. Some might say irrationally so, but like I said, he had a background in anti-piracy.

Well the position to hold publicly might be just that.
Makes sense.
Afterall why would anyone admit to intentionally leaking data?

It's not about admitting to intentionally leaking data, it's about showing up out of the blue one day years later and posting how much of a shame it was what that leaker did to them They didn't have to do that and no one asked them to

Also, you downplay how interesting the beta version is, here we are 18 years later and the software is old enough to vote and people are still developing frontends for it and releasing games with it

Not trying to boast here but..
Considering I am into bleem!cast way more than your average dreamcast fan. In no way do I downplay how interesting the beta is. In fact I released a mere 250+ bleem!cast selfboots back in the day. Recently I created a new method to use the bleemcast boot script in 64 bit OS. And I am currently going through 100s of psx isos to find more compatible games.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12193

Also I am interested in any developments that happen with bleemcast.
Bleemshell is truly awesome.

Right, so if you think it's such a big deal then why would you downplay it and act like it's "just an emulator ffs"
If you and others are interested in releasing 250+ selfboots many many years later, how can you claim Rand wouldn't care much if it were leaked, as if this leaked beta wouldn't be pretty significant competition to their later released product?

Yes, it seems very far fetched.
I am just going by my experience working contracts at Apple, and Microsoft.
Also working at 2 tech startup companies, 1 that tried to create an IBM websphere clone.
I have never seen any company take that level of protection with IP.
True I have always been a low level tier 1 type.
But, I signed the same nda's as the higher level folks.
Also had access to the same networks.

Apple has been rumored to have their employees work on fake projects so that if any information in the media pops up about these fake projects they can know which employees they cannot trust.

I'm not really sure Apple or Microsoft are comparable to the type of business bleem! was. If this product leaked their entire company could go under. Rand already believed that was the entire reason Sega went under. Even being a startup, an IBM websphere clone is not a piece of software whose dependence is threatened by an environment of rampant piracy. I don't think this is comparable to a games market on a console that is open season for thriving pirates.

But, why?
Why go through all of this to not only obfuscate your employees, but also the public as well.
I mean this is an emulator ffs.

Why?:

My opinions on piracy are well known, but just incase you missed them -- YES, IMHO, piracy killed the DC cold... and it would have absolutely shredded us instantly (and without mercy) if b!DC was cracked and/or copyable.

And, as a special bonus for those of you who've read all the crap above, here's a little rant of my own to top it all off:

I've recently read about movies that start with a trailer that features two "hollywood behind-the-scenes employees" talking about how internet piracy of movies doesn't hurt the big execs or the movie stars, but rather it hurts them.

And you know what? To them I say "boo f*king hoo. Wah wah wah. Welcome to our world."

Software developers have had piracy kill off companies for so many years that it's just an accepted part of the business. I'm hopeful that someone here in hollywood has the ability to convince people of the damages caused by piracy, but I just don't see it happening.

It's only when people are impacted personally that they exert the effort required to fix a problem, and until far more software companies (and their products) are killed off because of piracy, nothing will change.

Napster, Kazaa and its ilk are a recent phenomenon that's only been noticed because a handful of people with sufficient money and influence were being affected by the results -- perhaps some good will come out of it all, and they'll figure out a way to effectively solve a problem that has eluded the software industry since birth.

Most people haven't noticed that past five or ten years has had fewer and fewer software-related innovations, and yet the number of companies folding is at an all-time high, and the number of small startups is at its lowest level ever.

Coincidence? Yeah, that's it.

He believed the entire existence of his business and his ability to make a living only depended on it!
Rand used to rant about swimming upstream in trying to make a living off of emulation as everyone who was into emulation were just in it for piracy.
So I say again, if you don't understand how/why Rand would be motivated to do this -- then you just don't understand who Rand is.

Do we even know that they were locked to specific dreamcasts?
Is this even confirmed?
And as far as the cracking its way over my head.
People such as patriot, megavolt (dreamshell) and the original ppl who cracked the beta would need to chime in.

I haven't done any code analysis so no, I cannot confirm it.
Even if the cracking is way over your head, just think about what you're suggesting.
Copy protection must check for something. It obviously can't check for anything on the CD-R because it's a basic image CD-R with instructions for anyone to burn it. Thus the copy protection must be checking for something on the Dreamcast otherwise why couldn't anyone just burn it and "test" it on their Dreamcast? How else could the beta work when it's being used by a tester but not work when it's being used by someone who is not a tester?

I don't think an intentional leak and then a public post stating otherwise would make some1 a psychopath. It would be a successful leak, the public would always think otherwise. Afterall why would anyone admit to intentionally leaking data?

Again, this is going out of your way to lie about it

So what evidence do you have FOR your theory other than speculation and dismissing anything contradictory?

[Ian Micheal]

It was a fun not meant to be fact it's just speculation the thread he quoting from was not meant to be serous..

I respect rand a lot and he did talk to me in pm a few times but never about bleemcast.. Was about my own projects at the time..

Far as i know it was leaked on dcemulation irc channel by a tester thats it everything is is speculation

Like i said if anyone knows the truth it's DARC


I was given the uncracked version by someone in email asking me to crack them.. i never did that.. For one i did not know how.. at the time did not even know what bleem was and i was working on pcsx for dc.. which bleem leak pretty much killed all the other coders working on it..

[|darc|]

It was a fun not meant to be fact it's just speculation the thread he quoting from was not meant to be serous..

I respect rand a lot and he did talk to me in pm a few times but never about bleemcast.. Was about my own projects at the time..

Far as i know it was leaked on dcemulation irc channel by a tester thats it everything is is speculation

Like i said if anyone knows the truth it's DARC


I was given the uncracked version by someone in email asking me to crack them.. i never did that.. For one i did not know how.. at the time did not even know what bleem was and i was working on pcsx for dc.. which bleem leak pretty much killed all the other coders working on it..

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that first part up.

I had heard speculation about it leaking from DCEmulation's IRC but I was an OP there during those years and don't recall anyone showing up in the channel with the beta before it was circulating. If that is true, then it leaked via private message to someone.

I don't want to claim that I know everything though. Sometimes I'm wrong But nothing about this theory sounds right to me, and now we know that we have no evidence that it has anything to do with the game regions.

You know what would be a really good idea for this? Put an encryption key in the flashROM of a Dreamcast and encrypt your binaries, with a decryption algorithm in the IP.BIN. Put out 5 different binaries encrypted with the keys of 5 different Dreamcasts and there you go. It not only would run only on Dreamcasts with a key set but anyone who got ahold of the builds would have to figure out the decryption key as well as remove the flashROM check. Given that all 5 binaries are completely scrambled differently than one another when viewed in a hex editor, I'd speculate that they did something kinda like this

[mistamontiel]

Damn I wish I could ever quote multingly xD

Such legacy the Randy Linden has thrown down n then to read he had programming assist by the Fraps author!? That twas eye popper for me as I thought Bleem!cast was a one meng team

Ramble out!! Pardon

[SMiTH]

I am bleemed the eff out currently...
I will respond soon to the recent posts.
But we should probably take this to the bleemcast conspiracy thread, since we are derailing the OP.
*tinfoil needed to proceed further


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12161