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Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:50 pm
by cloofoofoo
So I was bored a couple nights ago and decided to rip out more models( this time using demul) but this time from Naomi 2 and Sega HIkaru. The dreamcast relatives who were considered behemoths during their time. In my personal opinion the naomi 2 is shocking behemoth with what I extracted (kinda similar to the wii in polycount per frame). Hikaru on the other hand was in the same realm of the dreamcast and was surprisingly low, seems to perform more constant than the dreamcast but not by much.The the triangle count is at TRIS and its per frame.
(I dont claim these are accurate but maybe it can give you a sense of scale between the machines)

Lets start with virtua fighter 4 on the naomi 2 pushing 112,000 tris per frame compared to the ps2 I extracted that usually hit 60,000 - 90,000 per frame:
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Virtua striker 3 naomi 2 (gamecube reaches similar counts randomly but over all its much less ):
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initial d naomi 2is interesting because it recieved a psp port that ran 30 fps(arcade is 60) and usually hit 30,000 -55,000(arcade is around 120,000) triangles a frame.
Thats probably how a naomi 2 game would look on the dreamcast and thats how cut down it would probably be:
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Beach spikers had a gamecube port that hits around 90,000 per frame at a smooth 60fps.Gamecube is pretty powerful but I guess not enough:
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Last for this post for naomi 2 is soul surfer. For some reason this one doesnt push all that much polys compared to the rest( maybe in naomi 2 transparencies are still a burden like it was on the dreamcast?) Next post will be for hikaru:
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Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:02 pm
by cloofoofoo
Now for hikaru. Usually people make it out the end all machine who would kick naomi 2 ass up and down. That looks to be pretty far from the truth.I dunno if its doing complex physics or thousands of lights but its polygon count would be pretty at home of the dreamcast. Sega really should have put their foot down and reworked the lighting and just port the games to the dreamcast, who knows they probably would have looked fine. I would have liked to try star wars but it doesnt work. I misplaced planet harriers but it ranged from 20,000-30,000.

Air trix was pretty low for some reason usually topping out at 20,000 triangles per frame:
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Brave fighters first stage demo and the second shot is the intro scene with all the people cheering:
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Nascar racer, scene from the intro with lots of cars close to the camera:
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Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:12 pm
by cloofoofoo
This one might less accurate because its from nulldc but the highest I could get on the dreamcast was wacky races using 2 players split using black outline at 30 fps around 76,000 per frame(its one of the highest if not the highest in that framerate). Who knows maybe virtuas fighter 4 around a ps2 type detail at 30 fps was possible? :D

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Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:27 am
by Anthony817
Interesting stuff cloofoofoo, would be great if you could do this with Dreamcast vs PS2/GC/Xbox ports, as well as showing off the super detailed DC games such as with Test Drive Le Mans ect.

Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:41 am
by cloofoofoo
Anthony817 wrote:Interesting stuff cloofoofoo, would be great if you could do this with Dreamcast vs PS2/GC/Xbox ports, as well as showing off the super detailed DC games such as with Test Drive Le Mans ect.

That's not a bad idea. I guess if I have more insomnia I'll give it a go one of these days. Test drive le man's is not even worth it though, last time I tried it , it barely went over 1 to 1.5 million polygons per second. That was with a bunch a car's on screen. Sorry to burst your bubble. To be honest f335 with 3rd person hack was more impressive around 25,000 to 34,000 per frame at 60 fps.( without hack it's much lower like 10000 to 18,000 per frame)

Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:11 pm
by cloofoofoo
I extracted jet set radio models on demul and its jet set radio pc port. Tried to match the camera angle and location as much a possible. While they came out to different triangle count it was by small difference( 57,000 vs 56,000 for the frame)

For the dreamcast Jet set radio was 57,000 polyons.Surprisingly a high polygon pusher( its around 1.7 million triangles @ 30fps):
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vs its pc port of 56,000:
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scene was something like this on both.
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Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 am
by segata sanshiro
Great thread man, good info. Thank you!

Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:16 pm
by Wombat
Awesome in depth write up, thanks for this.

Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:14 pm
by TheMadPolarBear
I’d love to see more of this. Are you able to compare games with PS2 versions? I’m curious to see if any PS2 ports received higher poly/tri counts. Thanks!

Re: Dreamcast compared to its relatives?(pics)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:11 pm
by cloofoofoo
Now for some dreamcast to ps2/gamecube ports. The ports seem to push slightly more polys per frame than their dreamcast counterpart but its not too bad.The only one where the DC got trounced badly was wacky race.

Sega bass fishing 2( sega bass fishing duel ps2)
This game was ported to ps2 and they added slit screen. I guess that just shows you how much more the ps2 can do.This game pushes alot of polys even on the dreamcast( later stages I saw around 52,000 per frame at 60 fps = 3.1 million triangles a sec). I used one of the default stages as I didnt unlock anything on the ps2. They are very similar on polycounts:

I tried to match as much as possible:
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On dreamcast almost 30,000 triangles on this frame:
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Forsome reason the ps2 version does push more but not by much, almost 39,000:
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!8 wheeler Dreamcast vs Gamecube

Dreamcast Character select screen 36,000 and parking 35,000 triangles per frame@ 30fps:
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Gamecube character select screen and parking (polygon count where it says primitives and primitives dl)
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Wacky races ps2 vs DC , they seem to use the same assets but the ps2 port for the most part seems to run alot better. I matched the both to space spot same race.Wacky races seem to pretty much push the most polygons per frame I have seen on the dc @ 30fps, even with outlines off at 60fps it still can reach over 30,000 triangles close to 40K.

Wacky races on the dc pushes almost 60,000 tris@ 30 fps in this frame( two player i tried pushed around 75,000):
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Wacky races ps2 aorund 63,000 but at 60 fps = 3.7 million polys per sec.ouch I guess even this early the ps2 is twice as fast.
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