Dreamcast-Talk.com

Hard to imagine the results with today's stuff on dreamcast.

Even 20 years later I'm still impressed by the water effect from the Sports Jam intro. This little "simple" scene amazes me to this day.

Despite the fact that I know the reflections in the puddles in racing games are just mirrored level geometry behind transparency[and simple cubemaps in more modern titles], I still think it's pretty and often quite convincing. A great use of the hardware's ability to push some extra polygons for superfluous detail.

I maintain that the Shadow Link fight in Ocarina is a brilliant set piece. Illusion of safety/tranquility abruptly shattered by the unknown, etc., etc.

That water in Zero Gunner 2 looks sick.

Dream On Volume 1 that came with the Dreamcast and some of the following volumes from the Official Dreamcast Magazine in Europe had this cool 3D rippling water effect, similar to the one in Sports Jam, with a variety of 2D backgrounds:

This is a good video that is mostly about Super Mario Galaxy 2 so not necessarily using techniques that could be utilized on the Dreamcast which lacked anything like the GameCube's and Wii's fixed function pipeline, but it briefly shows some Nintendo 64 games like OoT so you can see how simple art and tricks could have great results in those pre-programmable shader days. Developers on Dreamcast didn't bother or didn't come up with such clever practices (Ecco possibly uses some similar techniques though). Start at two minutes in:

You guys would be surprised what is simple textures and doubled geometry, even MGS uses that for reflections in water puddles and stuff but the doubled geometry has different textures to make the effect more convincing and what not. And you have the nice water reflected lights around walls in like Ocarina of Time and such, just textures. Sega used some of the techniques just not as effectively. PSO uses such moving textures on the wall to be light reflecting from the water too. Ecco probably for similar effects on surfaces and also Ecco himself. And sure you can tell Sonic Adventure's is a texture but it looked great. Imagine similarly nice textures (but not like tropical sea or anything) or some duplicated geometry used in the water in the sauna room in Code Veronica which has those very nice interactive ripples (and a bit less convincing where the submarine surfaces). It could have looked awesome, Capcom just chose the wrong texture there.

I guess Sega/most devs just didn't have as much attention to detail for that.

Look "Sport Jam" intro

Looks awesome

I would like to know if the Dreamcast could handle this kind of water effect and reflections?



In 2001 the Dreamcast received the game Power Jet Racing, which even had some effect of reflection in the water, but without the ripples.

Ryo_Hazuki wrote:I would like to know if the Dreamcast could handle this kind of water effect and reflections?



In 2001 the Dreamcast received the game Power Jet Racing, which even had some effect of reflection in the water, but without the ripples.

Not sure why are you asking this again when i answered it on page 1. I show a PS1 game doing the same effect. If they wanted to yeah the dreamcast can do it. They probably didnt want to bother with it too. Its just render to texture.

cloofoofoo wrote:

Ryo_Hazuki wrote:I would like to know if the Dreamcast could handle this kind of water effect and reflections?



In 2001 the Dreamcast received the game Power Jet Racing, which even had some effect of reflection in the water, but without the ripples.

Not sure why are you asking this again when i answered it on page 1. I show a PS1 game doing the same effect. If they wanted to yeah the dreamcast can do it. They probably didnt want to bother with it too. Its just render to texture.

Don't convince me!
There must be another reason, if it were just a matter of art we would have several examples on the Dreamcast platform.
Even the mighty Shenmue, programmers preferred to create a duplicate of the rooms where there were mirrors than to deal with real reflections.
Even knowing how Rare managed to make good reflexes on the N64, as we see on the Perfect Dark.
Was Sega really that bad in terms of art?